Why is Johnson more popular than Starmer?

Everything that was done was done too late. And Johnson was too busy with stuff like bonging for brexit, getting divorced etc to pay attention to the looming crisis (which, as Maizie points out many of us knew about in January 2020). I knew about things like asymptomatic transmission, the virus being airborne, the need for mask wearing long before Johnson professed to know about them,. And then, when he did eventually impose measures to safeguard people he then lifted them too early.

Mollygo

Volver I’m just asking

Don’t you believe the spread of Covid was partly caused by his inability to enforce rules that would have kept more people safe (and the inability of some of the GBP to follow those rules without enforcement.)

As I recall, in the first few months of lockdown the 'rules' where scrupulously obeyed by the greater part of the population. It was once they were relaxed, in July/August (Eat Out to Help Out, anybody?) that people started flocking to beaches. And it wasn't until the Autumn restrictions and the (very belated) mask mandate that we started getting the bigish protest gatherings.

I'm not really quite sure what Mollygo is arguing about as posts have got a bit weird over the last couple of pages. IIRC we started off with her saying that too much hindsight was being invoked when posters were saying how badly Johnson handled the pandemic.

Well, I would disagree with that. We knew abut C19 in January 2020. We knew how it was affecting some European countries (notably Italy) in February, yet nothing was done by our government, and then only after people had been calling for it for a number of weeks. This isn't 'hindsight', this is recollecting what happened at the time. The absence of the PM from COBR meetings and the ignoring of scientific warnings and suggestions. It's documented; the government was culpably lax.

Surely we have got to the point when we need a new thread headed "Is Starmer now more popular than Johnson?"

Sorry, here the link.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/covid19/2021/03/10/when-lockdown-law-is-effectively-unenforceable-what-motivates-people-to-obey-it/

So the bit about blindly believing press reports isn't important any more, is it?

Here's an academic article about why people "obeyed the rules". Sadly it doesn't have any pictures of people on beaches "flouting" the rules, accompanied by several exclamation marks. Sometimes a yes/no answer doesn't cut the mustard.

Volver I’m just asking

Don’t you believe the spread of Covid was partly caused by his inability to enforce rules that would have kept more people safe (and the inability of some of the GBP to follow those rules without enforcement.)

growstuff

Has half term started early?

It certainly looks like it. Has Maizie moved or is someone just using silly myths to make a point?

But which media stories do you believe? Just the ones that suit your purpose or the all of them?

I'm glad somebody has asked this because its something I've been thinking about.

When I read something in the press, or listen to a politician speaking, I try to apply a bit of critical thinking. So, for instance, if I read something in the press, I try to use what I know about the world to decide if it real or not, and how much the telling of the story has been influenced by the politics of the papers, or what they want me to believe. Same with politicians. If a politician says something which seems to either support or demolish something I believe to be true, I ask myself if that politician has a record of lying for his own ends, or if he was a respected DPP who got knighted for his work. For instance.

So I don't just "believe" anything. I exert judgement. Occasionally the Mail has an article that is true. Quite often the Guardian are harbingers of doom. If a population is educated, they should be able to judge for themselves whether a media story is reliable or not.

But too often, when the public see stories that reinforce their prejudices, they just believe them. That the poor will spend their money on booze and Sky TV for instance.

We need to be critical. Nullius in verba.

As far as I know WWM2 isn't the Prime Minister meant to be involved with serious interactions with the opposition about the running of the country. (Insert passive aggressive smiley face here)

volver

^if the media stories are true^

Quite.

But which media stories do you believe? Just the ones that suit your purpose or the all of them?

Don’t you believe the spread of Covid was partly caused by his inability to enforce rules that would have kept more people safe (and the inability of some of the GBP to follow those rules without enforcement.)

Whitewavemark2

“Use of such terminology as Vladimir Corbyn, Captain Hindsight, Sir Beer Korma are insight into a persons bullying nature. Character abuse is often a sign of an unstable personality, it starts with demeaning the victim, then progresses on to a conspiratorial controlling incursion”

Ditto ‘the greased piglet’ I assume? ?

* all the millions of people out protesting during lockdowns ?*

Millions ? Where ?

You could ask st Christopher to help you find the plot ?

if the media stories are true

Quite.

No. I didn’t say that, though I’m sure you could arrange anything I say to suit your purpose.
I don’t want either to live in China nor to bring China here, but the spread of Covid was partly caused by his inability to enforce rules that would have kept more people safe (and the inability of some of the GBP to follow those rules without enforcement.) in Oz there were police out enforcing the rules. Here, if the media stories are true, rule breakers claimed unfair treatment, removal if their democratic rights and tge eternal ‘other people are doing it so why shouldn’t I’?

Mollygo do you think that "at least he didn't kill anybody" is a suitable standard for a PM? Most of us are more focussed on "he lied to us and Parliament" or " he's either lying or he's too thick to recognise a social event" or "he's such a bad leader he'd rather be liked than do the right and legal thing."

It's a charge often levelled at us "loony lefties" that we should go and live in China. Sounds as though you want to bring China to us.

Nightowl- are you a Johnson supporter then? One of the few on here.
The focus at the moment is all on the socialising, which was wrong but didn’t actually cause any deaths from Covid as far as we know. I’m sure the media would have dug that out.

Do you not agree that he should have done any of the things I mentioned to stop the spread of Covid? Been more in charge of the GBP?

sharon103

Mollygo

BJ’s appalling handling of it?
Well I could certainly point out some mistakes, especially those regarding contracts for friends, and like everyone else, with hindsight, have done it better.
My thoughts . . .
He should have had police out with guns like they did in other countries to make sure people stayed off the beaches and other gathering places.

He should have insisted on the sort of lockdown that’s going on in China at the moment.

He should have insisted everyone wore a mask or stayed in instead of allowing the choice.
He should have, having done an excellent job in obtaining vaccine, have insisted that everyone had it, including the microchip fearing resisters.

He should have closed beaches and other public gatherings where those who didn’t care if there were rules did just as they wanted.

No one knew exactly what to do, although there are a lot of hindsight experts now.

Hear Hear!

Bloody hell a Johnson supporter who wants to live in communist China, now that requires some mental gymnastics!

And Johnson should have done all this while partying with his mates most nights of the week I suppose, because after all, he deserves a bit of fun after all his hard work, and the great job he did, not to mention that he nearly died of covid himself you know and he’s a great guy etc etc etc.

“Use of such terminology as Vladimir Corbyn, Captain Hindsight, Sir Beer Korma are insight into a persons bullying nature. Character abuse is often a sign of an unstable personality, it starts with demeaning the victim, then progresses on to a conspiratorial controlling incursion”

jeaniebquick

Doodledog -the whole point of mentioning China bringing Covid to the world was in reply to the myriad of people on here who thought Boris killed our people - I was merely pointing that out. Italy had similar deaths to the UK but they don't appear to blame it on their PM -or perhaps they do too ?

No idea about who the Italians blame; but their PM wasn't hosting regular parties whilst telling others not to mix socially, was he?

And I don't think that people here blame Johnson for the deaths (apart from those in care homes, and of those released into care homes from hospital, that is - oh, and those who died because the PPE contracts were a disgrace, and because people were encouraged to 'eat out to help out' when Covid was still rife), but we do blame him for being a liar, and for leading the most corrupt and shambolic cabinet in living memory.

I prefer narcissistic psychopath volver. Takes longer to type but an accurate description. ;)

OakDryad

Why do admirers of the Prime Minister, especially women, call him Boris as if he is their friend when he has made it very clear in his writing that he despises the women who vote for him (and his party) calling them his stooges and worse? Wake up.

To be fair, it's better than calling him BJ ?

OakDryad there you go again -assuming people say Boris as they think he's their friend -haha NO it's actually quicker to type -no big heavy analysis needed to peddle your bias

Mollygo

BJ’s appalling handling of it?
Well I could certainly point out some mistakes, especially those regarding contracts for friends, and like everyone else, with hindsight, have done it better.
My thoughts . . .
He should have had police out with guns like they did in other countries to make sure people stayed off the beaches and other gathering places.

He should have insisted on the sort of lockdown that’s going on in China at the moment.

He should have insisted everyone wore a mask or stayed in instead of allowing the choice.
He should have, having done an excellent job in obtaining vaccine, have insisted that everyone had it, including the microchip fearing resisters.

He should have closed beaches and other public gatherings where those who didn’t care if there were rules did just as they wanted.

No one knew exactly what to do, although there are a lot of hindsight experts now.

Hear Hear!

Doodledog -the whole point of mentioning China bringing Covid to the world was in reply to the myriad of people on here who thought Boris killed our people - I was merely pointing that out. Italy had similar deaths to the UK but they don't appear to blame it on their PM -or perhaps they do too ?

Why do admirers of the Prime Minister, especially women, call him Boris as if he is their friend when he has made it very clear in his writing that he despises the women who vote for him (and his party) calling them his stooges and worse? Wake up.