Rwanda

Biscuitmuncher

Absolute naive nonsense do you honestly believe they've come here to be an asset to us?

Why do you think it's okay to ask others why they believe what they say while offering nothing in the way of knowledge to support your opinion that it's "Absolute naive nonsense"?

We all know that Johnson employed Canzani (an ally of Lynton Crosby) earlier in the year to help him out of the mire. These people are all about the campaign and not about government and policies. The Crosby/Canzani mantra seemed to be "call the opposition names but don't worry about having proper policies." This attitude will turn out to be as useful, and effective as Brexit has been - making us all the poorer, morally and financially in the process.

It may never even go forward. Let's face it, it has almost certainly come up now to affect the by-elections. And then what? How have the neighbourhoods that have voted for this corrupt government benefited so far? If this makes them vote Conservative again how soon do you reckon they will benefit this time? I suggest you don't hold your breath while waiting.

You are confusing economic migrants with asylum seekers, Allsorts

Some 75% of asylum seekers are granted asylum. I understand that more may be granted asylum on appeal. Those who aren't can be legitimately returned to their country of origin.

We've been through the facts on this thread over and over again on this thread, so I'll just say that the benefits thing is nonsense and that, under international law there is no obligation of them to seek asylum in the first 'safe country' they reach. Additionally, most come from countries where there are no 'official channels' open to them to apply for visas.

I'm so tired of people churning out untrue populist propaganda about asylum seekers...

Most of the people are economic migrants

Data to support that? No? That's because its not true.

I have three bedrooms, but I'm not taking anyone in. I expect my country to behave in a civilised manner, not make me feel guilty about the government being incompetent.

Most of the people are economic migrants that go through several safe countries to get here. It’s for benefits they get here that they don’t get travelling through the other safe countries. It’s not fair on those that go through official channels to lose out to those paying huge amounts if money to people smugglers. There is no way we can take everyone in, I feel sorry for people born here with no chance of a home. If you feel so strongly take someone in, then the reply comes back, I’ve only one bedroom, sure. It always someone else’s problem. This country is obviously to these persistent whingers too bad to come to anyway.

Good post HousePlantQueen.

I'm an atheist republican in full agreement with the people you mention. My head may explode

I was about to reply to biscuitmuncher and try to persuade her to think around the subject and maybe read some of the relevant links, but decided that instead I will thank CaravanSerai for her thoughtful and poignant post. Sometimes we have to recognise lost causes and turn to those who think like us, and be thankful that we are not alone in our disgust at what is being done to people by this vile government, aided and abetted by those who support them. Things are getting very weird for me, I find that as what some on here would describe as a 'leftie', I find myself in tune with the Church of England (The Tory Party at prayer) and Prince Charles.

Of course I knew about the reciprocal agreement! I do read the newspapers you know. My head is not about to explode. It’s a “you scratch my back” deal. Each country gets what they want out of the deal.

HousePlantQueen

Grandmabatty

Some people's heads on this thread are going to explode when they discover that in exchange for the few desperate refugees being sent from UK to Rwanda, we are taking over 60 people/refugees from Rwanda. It's apparently part of the 'deal'.

I read that today and burst out laughing . Patel didn't tell her followers that bit did she? That should give the racists and people like the loutish Lee Anderson something to chew on.

Ah but they didn't come on dinghies. We don't want people that come on dinghies. Dinghies are the devil's work. People who come on dinghies are exploited by the nasty wicked people traffickers, and everybody knows that inhumane treatment of refugees is the Home Office's job.

There's sometimes no point in arguing because people don't want facts, or statistics, or cogent arguments.

They just believe what they believe and that's it. Even though what they believe is based on ignorance, fear and hatred.

Grandmabatty

Some people's heads on this thread are going to explode when they discover that in exchange for the few desperate refugees being sent from UK to Rwanda, we are taking over 60 people/refugees from Rwanda. It's apparently part of the 'deal'.

I read that today and burst out laughing . Patel didn't tell her followers that bit did she? That should give the racists and people like the loutish Lee Anderson something to chew on.

Absolute naive nonsense do you honestly believe they've come here to be an asset to us?

DaisyAnne

Maudi

Lee Anderson MP ?

Have Faith.

I see a few people are complaining there are not enough people on this flight tomorrow and I share the frustration.

However, this is a landmark judgement today which allows us to take people to Rwanda to process Asylum claims.

This is a massive victory and should not be talked down. Its been a real battle behind the scenes and I know this because I have been part of it.

Polite request, please get behind us because we are on your side unlike Labour, the lefty lawyers and human rights bosses on 6 figure salaries.

No other party would do this.

Another request to destroy democracy and replace it with dictatorship I see.

It is disgusting what bandwagons some people will jump on to promote their careers, but not nearly as disgusting as those that support them. If Lee Anderson MP is held up as an example of right minded thinking, then this country is completely fu**ed. He was sacked by Labour for anti-semitism, allegations of sexual impropriety, then scooped up by the Tories who now laud him as he blames and humiliates those who use foodbanks and now this. Seriously, anyone who thinks this is acceptable........

Maizied I do agree. as I said earlier the fit young man is probably the family's hope for their future. It's not like booking a summer holiday. The family will choose one person because that is all they can afford in the hope that that person will get employment so he can get employment, send back money and later send for others in the family .

Biscuitmuncher

These fit young men who have LEFT all the vulnerable behind , travelled through loads of safe countries to get here won't be getting any sympathy from me

These posts make me so sad (and angry).

They have to be fit to survive what they have to go through before they can reach the UK. You'd hardly send women and children or elderly people on such a taxing and dangerous journey (although some do make it).

Most of those 'fit young men' can be a great asset to the country that accepts their asylum application.

The 'safe country' trope is just bollocks. Under International law there is absolutely no requirement for refugees to apply for asylum in the first 'safe country' they reach.

None of this is funny but this link is James O'Brien running rings around "Jim from Watford" and maybe explains some of the ridiculous things that people believe about this.

twitter.com/LBC/status/1536664287783141376

The fit young men were probably picked by their family in the hope that they would get work , send the families money and eventually send for others.
Further back in the post I wrote about a doctor who had arrived in this way . Please read it.

Biscuitmuncher

These fit young men who have LEFT all the vulnerable behind , travelled through loads of safe countries to get here won't be getting any sympathy from me

They were fit young men the last time we were involved in trading human beings

These fit young men who have LEFT all the vulnerable behind , travelled through loads of safe countries to get here won't be getting any sympathy from me

Nor mine WWM2

westendgirl

From the Archbishop's letter;
"Those to be deported to Rwanda have had no chance to appeal or reunite with family in Britain. They have had no consideration of their asylum claim, recognition of their medical or other needs ,or any attempt to understand their predicament.Many are desperate people fleeing unspeakable horrors."
What sort of country does this ?

This one apparently. How low are we going to get?

but not in my name

MaizieD

Riverwalk

Swapping refugees is extraordinary - thought I'd imagined/misheard that yesterday but it seems not.

Now that really is trading in human beings... swapping one cargo for another.

This ?

Just what I was about to say

This ^

Shockingly inhumane.

From the Archbishop's letter;
"Those to be deported to Rwanda have had no chance to appeal or reunite with family in Britain. They have had no consideration of their asylum claim, recognition of their medical or other needs ,or any attempt to understand their predicament.Many are desperate people fleeing unspeakable horrors."
What sort of country does this ?

Caravanserai, your post brought tears to my eyes.

There are those on here who will continue to claim that asylum seekers are economic migrants being accommodated I four star hotels and are not fleeing danger….how on earth can they know that?

GrannyGravy13

I cannot understand why the U.K. (and other countries) cannot have outreach posts in refugee camps.

This would enable desperate people to apply for asylum/refuge in the Country they feel most akin to, totally cutting out the heinous cruel people trafficker from the get go.

This could stop folks feeling the need to destroy their identity papers along with any qualification papers, they could be allowed to work and therefore pay taxes.

Nor can I . Seems far more logical. This is a hideous scheme and not even well tHought out at that.

The discussion here a few days agao about some migrants understating their ages reminded me of something I had seen on TV. It eventually came to me. It was TV barrister Robert Rinder on Who Do You Think You Are. His Polish Jewish grandfather, born in 1923 saw his parents and four siblings taken away to the Treblinka gas chambers. As he was a young man, he was allowed to live but forced into labour at Schlieben near Buchenwald where the Nazis treated workers with immense cruelty. As the Allies approached, he was moved to a camp in Czechoslovakia. When the camp was liberated, the Red Cross found hundreds of orphaned children. In August 1945, a Jewish charity called the Central British Fund offered to take 1,000 youngsters to the UK. They had to be no older than 15 to qualify. Rinder’s forensic lawyer’s eye noticed that the ages on the manifest for the flight showed almost everyone including his grandfather was born in 1930 - 15 though he was 22. I guess if you have been kept starving and cold for six years, were literally skin and bones, it would be hard to tell how old you were. He was sent to the now famous Calgarth Estate in Windermere to start a new life. When he applied for naturalisation he asked that his year of birth be changed to 1923 to set the record straight. He was already a baker when he was taken by the Nazis and carried on his profession at Calgarth and throughout his working life. His marriage to an English woman produced a loving family one of whom is a brilliant barrister currently helping Ukranian refugees find safety.

That the British government can no longer find the humanity to help people to start a new life and would rather send them to a country with a record of genocide takes us right back to 1939, except now it is British ministers who are wearing the jackboots. I weep for what is happening.