Speaking the truth about brexit

It was a democratic vote. There were lies and truths on both sides. I voted out based on what I researched, having previously been pro EU. I’d still vote out if there was another referendum unless the EU is disbanded and re-established in a fairer way, and most importantly, that is run by people voted for by the public. It’s never good when unelected people are running the show. No doubt when we have the next general election people will moan it wasn’t fair. All people do these days is whinge. If memory serves me right, people would accept democratic votes and get on with it.

^ All people do these days is whinge.^

Of course they whinge, Gillycats. They're annoyed at the rights and opportunities which have been taken from them. And the economic disaster that Brexit is proving to be. I expect you'd whinge if your thriving business were no longer viable because of the barriers to trade with the EU that have been erected because of Brexit.

Gillycats

It was a democratic vote. There were lies and truths on both sides. I voted out based on what I researched, having previously been pro EU. I’d still vote out if there was another referendum unless the EU is disbanded and re-established in a fairer way, and most importantly, that is run by people voted for by the public. It’s never good when unelected people are running the show. No doubt when we have the next general election people will moan it wasn’t fair. All people do these days is whinge. If memory serves me right, people would accept democratic votes and get on with it.

Hmmm! That's odd! My memory is that Chief Brexiter Farage spent years perfecting his whinging.

Gillycats that is run by people voted for by the public. It’s never good when unelected people are running the show.

Sorry? You'll have to explain that to me

Gillycats

It was a democratic vote. There were lies and truths on both sides. I voted out based on what I researched, having previously been pro EU. I’d still vote out if there was another referendum unless the EU is disbanded and re-established in a fairer way, and most importantly, that is run by people voted for by the public. It’s never good when unelected people are running the show. No doubt when we have the next general election people will moan it wasn’t fair. All people do these days is whinge. If memory serves me right, people would accept democratic votes and get on with it.

It was a democratic vote
You can churn that out as often as you like but I would bet a super majority that the country overall does not think so.

There were lies and truths on both sides.
That one is easy for you to prove - or never repeat.
1. What were the lives on the Remain side.
2. What were the truths on the Leave side.

... unless the EU is disbanded and re-established in a fairer way ...
What would be a "fairer" way for the EU to work?

... that is run by people voted for by the public.
It was. We had MEPs. Are you suggesting we vote for the administrators? Where in the world does that happen?

All people do these days is whinge.
Isn't that exactly what your post is - a whinge to cover the awful outcome we have had so far?

If memory serves me right, people would accept democratic votes and get on with it.
If memory serves me right, we have rebellions against undemocratic moves towards dictatorship.

Monica
"Everything I have read suggests they vote with their wallets, "
And our wallets are in the heart of our hearts

The House of Lords aren’t elected, the government’s advisors aren’t elected, the civil service aren’t elected, the queen isn’t elected- think the U.K. is democratic??

Fennel My wallet is not in the heart of my heart, and I am not the only one who would be horrified that anyone would think they were so mercenary and materialistic.

MaizieD well my husband was self employed and went under during covid and I lost my job. No point in us keep droning on about it, we’ve had to battle on!

DaisyAnne well you keep churning out unsubstantiated stuff all the time to be fair. One of many lies was the claim that unemployment would go through the roof. It hasn’t. We were told countries would abandon us, they didn’t. Frankly I could go on but 1. the info is freely available to research and 2. no point in trying to reason with you. The fairer way for the EU to work would be for equality to prevail. Propping up countries who are fundamentally corrupt isn’t fair. And there’s a few of them in the EU.
The ‘administrators’ - what like the President and the Commissioners? I’d hardly call them adminstrators.
Dictatorship?? Are we now run by a dictatorship?
Finally, the irony. I make a comment about the incessant political criticism which is rife on GN, which often borders on bullying by the left of lefts and anti-Brexit bods on here, and guess what? Yep, they’re out in force!

Petera the people running the EU commission are not elected by the people.

Vegansrock I’m not a fan of the House of Lords but otherwise the laws are made by elected MPs. The Queen cannot do that nor can civil servants. The advisors have input (not always useful in my opinion) but to say we’re not a democracy is wrong.

Gillycats Petera the people running the EU commission are not elected by the people.

The Commission are the Civil Service and cannot take decisions, just like the UK Civil Service. The people who do take decisions, the Council and the Parliament, are elected by the people.

MaizieD well my husband was self employed and went under during covid and I lost my job. No point in us keep droning on about it, we’ve had to battle on!

The situations aren't in the slightest bit comparable, Gillycats. Covid is a natural disaster. Brexit is the deliberate imposition of barriers to trade. And a lot of unnecessary losses of rights and freedoms which have affected people's lives.

Can't do anything about natural disasters. Can't do much about man made ones, either, but pointing out the problems and the losses is perfectly reasonable. Especially when no-one can tell us what we have gained from it...

Finally, the irony. I make a comment about the incessant political criticism which is rife on GN, which often borders on bullying by the left of lefts and anti-Brexit bods on here, and guess what? Yep, they’re out in force!

You know what, Gillycats? 'Incessant political criticism' is a feature of any political system. People have been doing it for centuries... And there will be lots of it when there is a lot to criticise...

Why is it that when someone tries to discuss the failure of Brexit, and puts up reasoned argument to prove their point and potentially further the discussion, they are accused of being 'left of lefts' and of borderline bullying? This is a discussion thread about the success or otherwise of Brexit, so opinions will differ, and just a quick reminder that the Brexit vote was most certainly not split left vs right, and I suspect that a few non 'lefty' remainers on here will be annoyed at that assumption.

How has Brexit made your life better Gillycats?

BTW The President of the EU is elected and there are 27 Commissioners - one from each member country, nominated by the elected governments of their home countries.

Brexit was meant to give us the benefits of better trade deals, making use of imports and regulations that the EU did not allow. Those trade deals were just dreams and we now have different regulations in addition to EU ones, everything we have to export to them has to comply. Imports are currently very expensive and sterling is weak, the short term planning of successive governments is really hurting we are vulnerable.

If the Brexit advocates would like to give example of the benefits I will listen, the only beneficiaries I can see are currency traders short selling sterling.

Well, growstuff, I've asked several leave voters how our membership of the EU made their lives difficult. I have never had an answer.

Greta

Well, growstuff, I've asked several leave voters how our membership of the EU made their lives difficult. I have never had an answer.

Jacob Ress-Mogg lists our ability to have high powered vacuum cleaners as second on the massive list of Brexit benefits.

DaisyAnne well you keep churning out unsubstantiated stuff all the time to be fair.

Unlike this patently untrue post, I value honesty Gillycats. I think you would be hard-pressed to find posts where I do not quote the source. "Unsubstantiated" they are not.

Your posts seem to work to very Johnsonian standards.

1. One of many lies was the claim that unemployment would go through the roof.
As you are now into substantiated claims perhaps you could tell me who made that claim and when. A link would help.

I'll come back to the rest when we have dealt with this.

HousePlantQueen: Jacob Ress-Mogg lists our ability to have high powered vacuum cleaners as second on the massive list of Brexit benefits.

Good, I guess British dust is of a superior quality and is now much happier. Just as the same man explained that our fish are now a lot happier because they are truly British.

DaisyAnne well George Osbourne for one. He quoted an increase of 500,000 unemployed. We’ve got the lowest unemployment figures in a very long time. We have a better say in what benefits us eg horticulture imports and bio security. All of which you’ll dismiss no doubt so I won’t waste anymore time.

Growstuff - yes they are elected but not by the electorate. Hence it is not a democratic vote. We have no say in who is running the commission.

We were told we would have a Norway style deal but Farage - lie
We were told we would have more money for public services -lie
We were told it would be the easiest deal in history -lie
We were told the EU was about to collapse - lie
We were told trade would not be affected - lie
We were told we’d all be better off- lie
We were told immigration would fall - lie
I could go on ……
We may have full employment but we’ve got staff shortages which are crippling the NHS , travel and agriculture .

Lots of dire news and predictions about the U.K. economy. UK will be the worst performing economy in the G20 Why is that? The following organisations give their explanation -
The World Bank - Brexit
OECD - Brexit
The IMF - Brexit
Most respected economists - Brexit
Many business leaders - Brexit
The Tories - Ukraine.

Gillycats ^ We have no say in who is running the commission.^

..and again. The Commission is not the decision-making body it is the Civil Service. You have a say in who is on the Parliament and the Council. Who have you elected in the UK civil service?

(And to to repeat someone else's tangential point, who have you elected to the House of Lords?)

Also we don’t elect the Prime Minister, the members of the political party elect the leader.