Speaking the truth about brexit

What things in particular are you happy with SecondhandRose?

Many people had many reasons for leaving the EU, not least of which, the population at large never wanted to join in the first place.
Brexit can work. However, the workings of it were derailed by the pandemic. With this, everything is now 2 years behind time.
We are now able, if we try, to trade with over 150 countries around the world. In the EU we are limited to 27.
Some companies were slow to start finding other trading partners, and as such have gone into administration. Others, including new companies, are starting to flourish.
The most important thing about leaving the EU is democracy ---- the EU wants to be a super state in a republican mode. However, only the council in Brussels has any power or money, everyone else might as well forget they ever had a functioning government.

At least Brexit was democratic- well relatively. The Irish situation was not mentioned during the campaign and the rights and wrongs of that are not quite so democratic. It depends where the voters are taken from not always from all those affected by the vote. If EU citizens could vote on whether the Britain remained in the EU I wonder what that vote would have been? Many of the resulting problems could be sorted with goodwill on both sides. We didn’t join the Euro this left us out of major discussions but I seem to hear rumblings in the media we may still be asked to contribute towards the finances of Greece and Italy. I voted for Brexit and regret the major problems caused at the borders but what has changed wasn’t all EU law brought into British law? Yes we can now change it but surely that is when more red tape should be added not just because we fly a Union Jack instead of the EU flag.

You're havering.

That was for somerset10

Well said somerset10 and Eileen!

somerset10

Many people had many reasons for leaving the EU, not least of which, the population at large never wanted to join in the first place.
Brexit can work. However, the workings of it were derailed by the pandemic. With this, everything is now 2 years behind time.
We are now able, if we try, to trade with over 150 countries around the world. In the EU we are limited to 27.
Some companies were slow to start finding other trading partners, and as such have gone into administration. Others, including new companies, are starting to flourish.
The most important thing about leaving the EU is democracy ---- the EU wants to be a super state in a republican mode. However, only the council in Brussels has any power or money, everyone else might as well forget they ever had a functioning government.

Give me strength!

Just where do you start with this ?

I'm off to do some gardening...

somerset10

Many people had many reasons for leaving the EU, not least of which, the population at large never wanted to join in the first place.
Brexit can work. However, the workings of it were derailed by the pandemic. With this, everything is now 2 years behind time.
We are now able, if we try, to trade with over 150 countries around the world. In the EU we are limited to 27.
Some companies were slow to start finding other trading partners, and as such have gone into administration. Others, including new companies, are starting to flourish.
The most important thing about leaving the EU is democracy ---- the EU wants to be a super state in a republican mode. However, only the council in Brussels has any power or money, everyone else might as well forget they ever had a functioning government.

Let's pick one.

Do you really think we were only allowed to trade with 27 countries?

Where do you think the bananas came from?

Many people had many reasons for leaving the EU, not least of which, the population at large never wanted to join in the first place.

In the 1975 UK referendum 67% voted to stay in the EU.

Brexit can work. However, the workings of it were derailed by the pandemic.

All countries have suffered the pandemic. The UK's economy is in a worse state than all other nations in the top G20 barring Russia.

We are now able, if we try, to trade with over 150 countries around the world.

We always could. Now though, we are having trouble trading with the EU - our closest neighbours and the people who were responsible for a large percentage of our trade...and food...prior to Brexit.

These things are all in the public domain. Why do so many people not know this stuff and persist in spouting and applauding things that are clearly not true?

It must be very hard for people who believed Johnson, Farage, Dyson, Rees-Mogg etc to accept the harsh economic reality that is Brexit.
I’m sure they would not deliberately have voted to make their children poorer and with fewer opportunities than they had.
The enormity of the Brexit deception is too much for many to admit to, even in the face of hard, objective, economic facts.
Like cult members, they will continue to insist that Johnson (Boris to them) can do no wrong, that he is being unfairly treated by the press and lefty liberals.
When the pound crashes, inflation soars, our freedoms are totally curtailed and they wake up in a fascist state, will they wake up? Will they stand up?

volver

somerset10

Many people had many reasons for leaving the EU, not least of which, the population at large never wanted to join in the first place.
Brexit can work. However, the workings of it were derailed by the pandemic. With this, everything is now 2 years behind time.
We are now able, if we try, to trade with over 150 countries around the world. In the EU we are limited to 27.
Some companies were slow to start finding other trading partners, and as such have gone into administration. Others, including new companies, are starting to flourish.
The most important thing about leaving the EU is democracy ---- the EU wants to be a super state in a republican mode. However, only the council in Brussels has any power or money, everyone else might as well forget they ever had a functioning government.

Let's pick one.

Do you really think we were only allowed to trade with 27 countries?

Where do you think the bananas came from?

And just about every cheap household appliance, christmas decoration, cutlery, crockery, mobile phones, etc etc. etc?

I didn't realise that China was on of the EU 27 (or even the EU 28 when we were still in it...)

Brexit was never about practical issues, but emotional ones. It was rather like Trump and his 'make America great again' slogan.

I agree with this wholeheartedly ☝?

as soon as i saw the "heading" i knew you lot on here would be anti brexit........you seem to be anti everything.....the government / Boris / the monarchy / Farage/ Trump, i' m sure you'd be far happier

Utter nonsense to say that the UK was limited to trading with only 27 countries. Is that what you truly believe somerset10? As members of the EU we were part of bloc trade agreements with the rest of the world. Do please look at this:

www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries

These are the nations we traded with as part of the EU and are having to renegotiate with.

I answered the banana question the other day. Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador and Belize none of which are in Europe unless there’s been some major tectonic plate shift in the night. Johnson was waffling the other day complaining about banana tariffs. It's up to his government to negotiate them.

I am able to accept people voting to leave the EU based on considered opinion and belief, but when it has been based on nonsense, inaccuracies and downright lies, which some keep on trotting out, I do start to lose understanding and acceptance and get very angry indeed. Dylant1234 hits the nail on the head.

Once again, all I hear is whinge, whinge, whinge. So we have gone through a drastic period with Covid etc. and we have to bear in mind that the EU are going to make our leaving, their non-elected hierarchy, as difficult as possible, who would not do so. Difficult times are to be expected but one must wait and see the final outcome and you "gripers" may yet be found wanting.

What do you mean 'non elected'? There were EU elections for MEPs and we could all vote.

I will say again..all countries suffered Covid but only the UK suffered Brexit... that's why our economy is tanking.

Gransnet, for some reason, stopped sending me notifications but then just as suddenly started sending them again. Wonderful to come back to a stonking Brexit debate. But where are Lemongrove and Day 6, the true Brexit believers? I wonder if they have changed their minds.

Like Volver I still feel sick with anger about Brexit. I feel so angry with David Cameron for embarking on the referendum in the first place in such a careless way, with no safeguards at all and since then it has just got worse and worse. And tomorrow we break international law in breaking a treaty set up by B Johnson and his side kick Lord Frost - the wonderful "oven-ready" deal.

It is so good to read so many cogent arguments against Brexit.

Gormley is not relevant except as an example of the many Brits who have managed to get an EU passport through ancestry (like Farage) to help with working and living in the EU or who have moved their business to an EU country (like Rees-Mogg's investment business). The main point is that Brexit was largely a ploy to get Johnson elected and it is a disaster for many UK businesses and individuals. The fantasy of sovereignty has little meaning in a highly interconnected world. All these little trade deals (like with the Faeroes) are trivial in comparison to trade with the EU which Johnson has failed to sustain. Look at all the extra paperwork and the mess with Northern Ireland which Johnson lied about (no checks in the Irish sea. Really?). And the trade deal with the USA is going nowhere fast - they are not interested. Johnson has been an enormous disaster for the UK and the sooner he goes, the better.

I definitely think some people here should refer to the education thread and how an educated electorate makes good decisions. Here we have some great examples to work from.

Varien. maybe you remember Thatcher reducing the number of civil servants. She sacked all the cleaners and contracted cleaning services out to large multiples, The cleanliness was reduced and employees had poorer conditions of pay and work. Is that what Johnson wants to do?

As for Bexit, I only know of 2 people who voted to leave. One of them is an immigrant doctor who says we have too many immigrants in UK.

Can any of the pro Brexit people tell me something positive that Brexit has brought them?

I would be genuinely interested to know as currently there seems to be only distress in many areas.

Personally I feel Brexit was the biggest crime inflicted on us. What was promised has not been delivered. As far as I see, the Brexiteers were manipulated with promises of more cash and Rule Britannia and hoodwinked and they can't admit it!

We have lost so many benefits by being part of the bigger picture in this part of the world. Now we are just a wee isolated island that is sinking!!
Most reports are about how less-off Britain is now, not just financially but culturally and more worryingly the extreme right is growing.

I'm in Scotland and we had it forced upon us and I can't wait to get independence and back to be part of Europe. And I hear more and more people here , who were against independence, wanting it now. Ultimately Brexit will be responsible for splitting up the Union.

It's a most terrible thing that has happened ...as Polly Toynbee says, 'A self inflicted wound'.

Yes, Brexit was all about snappy slogans. Take back control, Get Brexit done, Oven-ready deal... and the promise of £350m a week for the NHS when it was done. How easily voters were reeled in.
Wise move, Anthony Gormley. My DDs and grandsons have recently been granted German citizenship because their paternal grandfather/great grandfather was German and lost his citizenship in the war when he came to Britain as a refugee. It feels appropriate that a wrong has at last been put right and it opens up travel/work options as EU citizens.

The idea that we couldn’t make any of our laws us also complete twaddle. We only had 5% of our laws from the EU and we were involved in passing them- they weren’t imposed on us- we made our own U.K. laws on health , education, policing and just about everything else. Why do people still believe this guff?

Whether or not Brexit was a good idea in principle, and whatever your personal feelings on the matter, it's become clear that it has been managed in the most disastrous way possible, and has produced a complete absence of any benefits whatsoever.
On the other hand our illustrious P.M. has been gibbering about banana plantations in Birmingham (yes, really!), so you never know.