Refugees

Close inspection of what Patel maintains will happen to the asylum seekers in Rwanda simply doesn’t stand up to what she says will happen.

Once again the government is lying.

What they hope is that once the cargo of misery is dumped on Rwanda, the U.K. population will forget the immoral and appalling action and move on.

Well they haven’t learned have they.

We haven’t moved on from

Prorogation,
Brexit,
Lying
Corruption
Cronyism
Fraud,
Partygate
Incompetence
NI protocol
And now Rwanda.

The list is enormous

I'm afraid people are just not thinking ahead.

Its just so unfair and so wrong to say that.

It's the people who are thinking ahead that are trying to solve the problem. The politicians who think sending people to Rwanda is the answer are the ones with no vision and no capacity for strategic thinking.

Why anyone thinks the whole world is desperate to come to the U.K. defeats me. Why can’t we cooperate with our neighbours to combat the traffickers , which is the only real solution ? And why this pretence that the government is trying to save lives? Plus if life in Rwanda is going to be so good for these folks why would it be a deterrent?

But we're not over-run. That's just a fallacy. What does "overrun" mean, anyway?

We are spending money on failed flights to Rwanda that could have been spent on building new houses. Or training new health workers, or improving the transport infrastructure. And so much else is being wasted; all the money spent on a failed Track and Trace, etc.

All that we spend is a choice, and recent governments have decided to blame the "other" instead of spending money on worthwhile projects. We're not paying for things for the whole world, of course there has to be limits on the people we accept but raging against some poor tortured Iraqi doesn't make more homes for the people already living here.

CaravanSerai Building more homes is already eating up our green spaces and our farming land. My question is: where will it end? Build another 3 million homes and you will find by then another 3 million are required. I'm afraid people are just not thinking ahead.

volver Those who have actually followed the truth of this will know that we have a tiny proportion of the world's refugees. We're not overrun.
But we are a tiny country! And heavily populated. And as there are thousands arriving on boats all the time it won't be long before we are overrun. We cannot provide homes for the people living here already. And British taxpayers cannot afford to provide healthcare and education for the whole world.

Johnson keeps saying we need to grow the economy and provide more jobs. How will that work if we don't invest in the future and have enough people to work?

I posted elsewhere that only 8% of the UK is developed which includes all the infrastructure and greens space within that 8%.

There are currently 28 millions homes i.e. 3.5 million homes for every 1% of developed land. So we could build another 3.5 million homes together with all the necessary infrastructure and still only use another 1%.

In 2019, the government promised 300,000 new homes a year but is failing to deliver. Why do people think that might be?

If it had kept its promise, by 2030 we would have had 3.5 million new homes.

It was Tory MP Laura Trott, speaking in the HoC just a few weeks ago, who said we need new towns. I think she's right but to get that we need a government which has a long-term social vision and I don't see this in Johnson's rudderless administration.

Lucca

This obsession with “mobile phones”…how else could anybody manage to travel, apply for visas, find work, maintain contact with family. Seriously, how ?

A few years ago, there was a massive fire in an industrial building close to our homes.
We were woken up by Police banging on doors at 1.00 am telling us we had to be 'evacuated' while the emergency services dealt with the situation.
I quickly dressed and grabbed medication, my dogs and my mobile phone before leaving....I've spoken to others who have sadly been in similar situations due to floods, power issues / storms etc and as I did, mobiles are usually amongst the first items taken so totally in agreement with you.

It does seem to be a widespread thought that if we don't transport these people to Rwanda than we are just being soft and the whole world will come here.

Those who have actually followed the truth of this will know that we have a tiny proportion of the world's refugees. We're not overrun. And nobody at all is advocating a free for all. Most people are advocating a fair and humane system for assessing refugees. Why do people think we just want to throw open the borders and not have any checks?

Personally, I think it's fear, and a stirring up of hatred by the government and the right wing press.

MaizieD The world was a very different place back then and most countries were sparsely populated. I think you know that. Today we have borders and passports. Countries need to keep control of their population in order to provide for them. We now have huge numbers of people moving around between countries so it's not possible for people to go wherever they wish.

^ People going wherever they wish all over the world?^

That's what people have done for centuries.

I find this statement strangely ironic from a member of the country that, over those centuries, walked into other countries all over the globe and claimed them for its own

The Government's plan for 'tackling the traffickers' seems ridiculous to me. I'm only a simple soul but I see a simpler method. ie recruit some of the newly arrived in the UK refugees. transport them back to France with some money to contact the traffickers and pass all the information back to the UK. Then the traffickers could at best be arrested, tried, convicted or at least forced out of business.

Perhaps this already happens and obviously would be kept secret. As has been said on here with respect to Putin - Where is James Bond when you need him?

It’s the government’s job to plan for housing, education, healthcare and jobs to meet the needs of a growing population including putting the necessary structures in place to process applications to live here quickly and fairly and decently.

Well said, CaravanSerai.

I often wonder what people think that the government's job actually is. I've thought several times that it might be worth starting a thread on it because there doesn't seem to be agreement on this forum about what a governments should do for the country.

LauraNorderr

I thank my lucky stars that, by accident of birth, I was born on this safe and fairly prosperous island.
That doesn’t make it my right to own it. Those, by accident of birth, born in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Angola or anywhere else should have has much right as I should to live in any corner of the planet.
Human beings should be able to choose to live freely anywhere and be treated equally and with compassion, understanding and civility.
Where did this idea come from that any of us own a country and have a right to say who lives in it.

What nonsense. if you don't protect your own country there would be a free for all and total anarchy. People going wherever they wish all over the world? They will obviously choose more prosperous western democracies resulting in a complete imbalance, the poorer countries losing their workforce and becoming poorer and the richer countries becoming overloaded and bloated with too many people.
I would rather we helped these countries become more stable and prosperous so they can support their own people.

Provide someone with a roof and the opportunity and means to work and they become net contributors to society. We need more workers. If they can’t be found from the existing population (and it seems that we can't) then we need to encourage people to move here.

The ONS have estimated population growth between now and mid 2030s which includes factoring in net migration of 2.2 million. It’s the government’s job to plan for housing, education, healthcare and jobs to meet the needs of a growing population including putting the necessary structures in place to process applications to live here quickly and fairly and decently.

Despite having had twelve years in power they still haven’t got it right, in fact they have got it catastrophically wrong. If they were to stop their manufactured class war, setting person against person as a distraction from their ineptitude, aided and abetted by the right wing media, and just get on with what they are paid to do, there would be enough for everybody and we might actually achieve some economic growth instead being at the bottom of the G20.

Exactly Glorianny
The traffikers are the profiteers in this situation, not the people who want a better life and have been sold a 'dream'.

As 'luluaugust' said I wonder how long it takes before reality sets in.

I thank my lucky stars that, by accident of birth, I was born on this safe and fairly prosperous island.
That doesn’t make it my right to own it. Those, by accident of birth, born in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Angola or anywhere else should have has much right as I should to live in any corner of the planet.
Human beings should be able to choose to live freely anywhere and be treated equally and with compassion, understanding and civility.
Where did this idea come from that any of us own a country and have a right to say who lives in it.

lixy Thank you! I have been wondering why we can’t do this. We need workers in the UK surely?? I’m watching with interest.

If the government changed the regulations and permitted asylum seekers to work they wouldn't be such a financial burden. They want to work and build lives for themselves, instead they are held in a sort of limbo for years, not knowing if they will be allowed to stay, dependent on handouts and unable to find out how their application is going. It's a ridiculous situation. I met one woman, she had an arts degree, spoke excellent English and was volunteering because she was unable to do paid work, she had no idea what would happen to her and said it was impossible to find anything out. One reason they need a mobile phone is to try and find out how their application for asylum is progressing.

The article this time !!

Sorry posted too soon!
And Economic Development Partnership.

10/6/22 From The House of Commons Library Research briefing from the UK-Rwandan Migrant

Just in case anyone thinks that sending Refugees to Rwanda is cost free.

I do hope you are right Maudi
At least even the Left-leaning BBC news is now laying out the scale of the problem by reporting on the ever-increasing numbers turning up uninvited on our shores on a daily basis.

Thankfully most of the population here is well aware that this dangerous, illegal people-smuggling operation has to be defeated.

I am optimistic that the government will, despite every obstacle flung at it, succeed eventually.

As Urms has pointed out, this people smuggling operation costs British taxpayers, around £5 million pounds A DAY.

Heaven help us if Labour get into power otherwise it really will be a free for all.

Calling friends and family to let them know how they’re doing more like.

Is that the friends and family they've had to leave behind in countries with dreadful human rights records? The friends and family they worry about 24 hours a day, while the person they have sent to the UK to help them is demonised or transported to a country they know nothing about?

Or is it a way for their lawyers to get in touch with them to let them know that they are not going to be illegally deported after all?

Have some common sense, really.

I feel very stupid here but...
Ten o'clock news last night talked about spending millions of pounds on taking people thousands of miles away. These people will be offered housing and jobs.
Later on companies were talking about needing to attract people here, skilled and unskilled, because there aren't enough to do the jobs.
I don't understand why the first set of people can't be given the opportunity to fill the need. Is it simply that we don't have the ingenuity to make it possible safely?
I'm expecting to be called naïve and simplistic, but sometimes the simple solution works.