Health Secretary says no more money for NHS

The railway strike, which of course is the responsibilty of our negligent government, could well be blamed on the Labour Party.

The Tories talk about "Labour's strike" in a blatant attempt to derail the Labour challenge in the Wakefield by-election.

The railway workers' stike isn't going to help the NHS.

Unfortunately a sizeable portion of the electorate get their news and their political views from the proprietors of The Daily Express, The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph and other news outlets controlled by tax dodging billionaires who have their own agenda.

It suits these newspaper proprietors to keep Boris Johnson in office.

“I get so irritated when the electorate turn on each other rather than the bastards who have caused all this.”

That’s exactly how I feel.

My son tells me that in his area some hospitals are now run by Virgin.
When I was a child (1930} the doctor would come out on Christmas Day ! and sit and have cup of tea! Cannot remember the last time I saw my GP. A paramedic comes instead.

On one occasion I had to wait seven hours in severe pain for the ambulance and then four hours in A& E.

I have read in the last week that an American health care company is already providing GP services to a group of surgeries. I would be interested to know what the patients think of the service. I don't pay my taxes to fund American shareholders. How much has Liz Truss already promised the Americans?

Calendargirl

growstuff

"It will provide you with all medical, dental and nursing care. Everyone – rich or poor, man, woman or child-can use it or any part of it. There are no charges, except for a few special items. There are no insurance qualifications. But it is not a “charity”. You are all paying for it, mainly as taxpayers, and it will relieve your money worries in time of illness."

But this is nearly 75 years ago.

So many more treatments, operations, procedures, tests, scans, available nowadays. It must have been so much simpler then.

And much cheaper. Just thinking of dental treatment. There would be fillings, extractions, false teeth. No implants, crowns, root canal treatments surely?

But over that time, you expect a similar or probably greater growth in GDP. Although, noticeably not over the last 12 years. There is more money. We could, if we were to have a government that chooses all the people, not just the wealthy, create a growing economy.

Obviously, a growing economy cannot be spent on health. It has to be used to cut taxes for the wealthy and paying extortionate salaries at the top of companies (plus bonuses).

I was reading an article on the destruction of the middle classes the other day. It seems as though, while the poor (under Conservatives) will always be with us, those on middle-incomes are about to join them.

Pharmacists are now being trained to take on duties that formerly were carried out by GPs. One I know has to pay her own travel expenses to the training hub and will not receive a pay rise when she gains her new qualification. You can bet that Boris and his ilk will be accessing private health care rather than nipping along to Boots.

Dinahmo it does depend on what the manager does. Some don't need to be medically trained to do their jobs and some do.
My son was a manager for the NHS. He worked on resources. That meant trying to get medical equipment to where it was needed eg dialysis machines so that some hospitals who had very few would get them from somewhere else.
My DD as a nurse manager has to be medically trained to do her job.

AGAA4

Many of the managers in the NHS are doctors and nurses.

That's good to know but equally there are many who don't.

volver

I was a manager. Not in the NHS. Once I managed salesmen, I've never sold anything in my life. I was managing the people who are experts. I'm always amused by the people that say they don't need so many managers. Try that for a couple of weeks and see where you end up.

I'm not saying that fewer managers are needed. What I am saying is that in many instances managers have no idea about the nature of the work performed by those that they are managing.

On the subject of appointments - here in France a different system is operated. You're ill, you go to the doctor who will give you an ordnance (prescription) for whatever basic treatment you need - blood tests, ex-rays, physio etc. When the results come back, these will be discussed with you and he will give you a letter for whatever clinician you need to see. He will probably give you a few names. He might even make the appointment for you.

But now there is a computer system which you can go on, read the biogs of the specialists that you need to see and you make your appointment on line to suit you. Having done that you will receive a confirmation email and also at least one reminder just before your appointment. If a cancellation occurs you will receive an email asking if you want to move your appointment further.

Over the past year we have both had appointments with specialists and have seen them on time.

And there are still hospitals equivalent to the old cottage hospitals for those people who need fairly long care before they can return home or for those who need hospice care.

I am sure people on here will have different experiences of medicine in France. Being over our three score years and ten we are now needing more medical care and we have no complaints about service and we have also seen some friends with terminal illnesses who have been well cared for throughout.

I was a manager. Not in the NHS. Once I managed salesmen, I've never sold anything in my life. I was managing the people who are experts. I'm always amused by the people that say they don't need so many managers. Try that for a couple of weeks and see where you end up.

Many of the managers in the NHS are doctors and nurses.

The unfortunate thing about managers is that they just manage without necessarily knowing very much about what they manage. Many of them will have done management studies courses and may not have a genuine interest in the NHS.

Two examples - not NHS related.

One friend (an accountant) did the accounts on a voluntary basis for a small housing association in the south. She expanded the association to the extent that it employed 50 people and had its own headquarters building. At that point she hired 3 directors for each of the divisions. The recruitment process was such that the candidates were interviewed by a large panel, which included her and some trustees as well staff from the specialist recruitment agency.

Those chosen had no particular interest in housing associations - it was just a step on the ladder to higher things.
After a few years, the Chair of the Trustees ( a retired CEO of a household name building society) decided to finally retire from voluntary work. My friend did not get on with the new Chair and did not agree with all the proposals put forward by the 3 directors. She arrived at work one day to be told that she was no longer required and to leave her car keys. She was devastated, as you can imagine. The association lasted little more than year, bankrupted by the grandiose ideas of those 3 directors.

The other example - a man who was in charge of the book restoration of the British Library. My OH asked how he could do this role when he had no idea about book restoration (which is extremely skilled) His response was that he didn't need to- he just had to manage the people that were experts.

There must be hundreds of people in the NHS at different levels who may well have the ability to manage staff.

janipans

Whilst we have cause to be very grateful to the NHS for life saving treatment, they need to work smarter before receiving yet more funding! It is wasteful and inefficient. As an example, my husband does not drive and the hospital he needs to visit is not on a bus/train route, so the only option is for me to drive him.
They will not make appointments by telephone or online, the only option is to wait for an appointments letter, by which time, we/I may have made other arrangements. Yesterday, I changed my longstanding hair appointment and a meeting in order to get hubby to an 11am appointment, only to find that a doctor had not turned up an there was a 2 hour wait. There had made no attempt to contact us yet they must have known there would be a problem from the beginning of the day. We elected not to wait for 2 hours but they would not rearrange the appointment there and then ... we have to wait for another letter! There is no consideration for the patient only their system.
We also were told to empty 60 boxes of unused, untouched, in date, double plastic wrapped dialysis fluids down the drain as they would not take them back. We also had to put boxes of unused plastic wrapped tubes, dressings, etc into medical waste disposal. What a waste of NHS funds!
I also had a small op which they brought forward. BUT, they insisted on doing another pre-op visit/tests etc, even though they had only done exactly the same tests 2 days before (for the later op!) No common sense, just tick-box mentality!
Just what are the managers managing? If any private enterprise used the same methodology they would be out of business in a flash!

Good grief, really, beggars belief that about the appointment and the pre-op visits, just downright stupid!

Can understand re the fluids etc although it is a terrible waste, it's the same with medication, they won't take that back either ....

vegansrock

What about the £350m a week for the NHS which we would be saving after Brexit?

Quite - ha, ha!

The writing was on the wall in 2010 when it was just getting to be really quite good - deliberate underfunding so they could flog it off to their pals (an probably themselves too) ....

Make it so bad that the 'great unwashed' will accept anything to make it better .... that's exactly what they are doing, and it is working, sadly - just awful.

Whilst we have cause to be very grateful to the NHS for life saving treatment, they need to work smarter before receiving yet more funding! It is wasteful and inefficient. As an example, my husband does not drive and the hospital he needs to visit is not on a bus/train route, so the only option is for me to drive him.
They will not make appointments by telephone or online, the only option is to wait for an appointments letter, by which time, we/I may have made other arrangements. Yesterday, I changed my longstanding hair appointment and a meeting in order to get hubby to an 11am appointment, only to find that a doctor had not turned up an there was a 2 hour wait. There had made no attempt to contact us yet they must have known there would be a problem from the beginning of the day. We elected not to wait for 2 hours but they would not rearrange the appointment there and then ... we have to wait for another letter! There is no consideration for the patient only their system.
We also were told to empty 60 boxes of unused, untouched, in date, double plastic wrapped dialysis fluids down the drain as they would not take them back. We also had to put boxes of unused plastic wrapped tubes, dressings, etc into medical waste disposal. What a waste of NHS funds!
I also had a small op which they brought forward. BUT, they insisted on doing another pre-op visit/tests etc, even though they had only done exactly the same tests 2 days before (for the later op!) No common sense, just tick-box mentality!
Just what are the managers managing? If any private enterprise used the same methodology they would be out of business in a flash!

Annewilko

songstress60

What about the money Sir Tom raised during the pandemic. Wasn't that for the NHS?

A tiny drop in the ocean.

The money he raised was for NHS charities, not for funding the NHS.

For all those saying there should be fewer managers. Who do you think it going to run it? Who do you think is going to put in place all these wonderful ideas you have for how the NHS should improve?

And after a quick Google. The Eurovision Song content costs about £15million. The NHS in England costs £330million a day. I think we can afford a Song Contest.

It the 50s and 60s we had convalescent hospitals which looked after the elderly and people recovering from serious operations this stopped bed blocking but they were closed down by the labour party to make the NHS more effective and created more and more administrative jobs

songstress60

What about the money Sir Tom raised during the pandemic. Wasn't that for the NHS?

A tiny drop in the ocean.

Ahhh the old divide and conquer.
We are paying for the previous generation now, they previously paid for the one in front of them. That is how it works.
Unfortunately, drip feeding the elite agenda is working via social media, the new social control.

There is no doubt that all health care systems are struggling with the vast increase in available and costly treatments that were unimaginable in 1948. So it is a challenge.

But tackling this requires the motivation to do so. This government do not have that motivation because their political dogma favours a different profit-led system with private companies reaping the benefits.

There are of course savings to be made and inefficiencies to be tackled, but the basis of the problem is a desire by the government to solve it.

Only 5 years ago, social media sites like this were not full of tales of long waiting lists, hours on end waiting in A&E, ambulances stacking up outside, and people unable to gain access to a GP. This drip feed of failure to tackle the needs of the NHS has crept up on us and now we are well and truly in the mire.

The only answer is to ditch the guys at he top who are steeped in their dogma and get ourselves a government who actually grasps the the meaning of the word SERVICE.

Sorry, hire not buy! Argh!

I had to have a CT scan last week, and the nurse said they are working 18 months behind...apart from urgent cases like me. They were allowed to hire 2 CT wagons run by agency staff, and set up a hired CT and MRI at a hospital unit opened for Covid. The rental costs must be horrendous- but they are allowed to rent, not hire. She said 'The Conservatives haven't killed the NHS off yet, but they're nearly there, another successful election should do it'.