Countries can ditch monarchy and become republics ‘calmly and without rancour’ says Prince of Wales

As I said, show me something that better protects me from dictatorship

Consider this serious discussion.

Can you please list the monarchies and republics of the world and explain which are dictatorships and which are not? Then stop setting up straw men to try to prove that there is nothing better than what we've got.

This is why I'm angry. Debate properly. Don't make up spurious allegations about how republics work.

Grammaretto

Just mention a change and all hell lets loose! and that's just on here. Talk about calm and no rancour. Sorry Prince of Wales but really? Good changes come gradually: no coups, no civil war, no bloodshed please. We are British.

You don't seem to notice, Grammaretto that we're living through an attempted coup at this very moment. With a PM who intends to stay put for ever and ever leading a government with a big and compliant majority which is subverting Parliamentary democracy and removing or attacking citizen's rights at every opportunity.

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

What an insulting post DaisyAnne. I'll come back with a response when I'm less angry about it.

Volver, I have noticed you are always prepared to see an insult where there is none. Who, exactly, have I insulted and how?

If you stopped be Mr/Mrs Angry and debated we might all learn something.

You stop associating people who want a republic with being part of a mob, and we'll talk.

If people learned the difference between democracy and republic, we could have a debate. (I know that wasn't you) If people understood what a HoS was for, we could have a debate. If people stopped saying that the monarchy we have has saved us from extremism, we could have a debate. If people stopped using a bad example of things happening in a republic to say we should never have a republic, we could have a debate.

No volver I would never accept that your anger may dictate what I think or say. The idea that you have a right to use your anger to cancel out my view is not a truth in anyone's democracy.

I did not associate all "people wanting a republic" with mob behaviour. However, you would surely admit this can happen when some use their anger to try and overthrow systems of governence - or perhaps you don't "do" history.

Stop being angry and discuss in the same way others do and you might encourage people to read what you say. Currently, I am rarely getting past the personal insults in your first paragraph. The rest seems to be an attempt to dictate rather than discuss.

Insults.

I don't "do" history?

Don't accuse me of insulting people and then expect to write things like that and not get pulled up for it.

Got any answers to my questions? Of course you are not obliged to answer them. Perhaps you don't "do" facts.

MaizieD

Grammaretto

Just mention a change and all hell lets loose! and that's just on here. Talk about calm and no rancour. Sorry Prince of Wales but really? Good changes come gradually: no coups, no civil war, no bloodshed please. We are British.

You don't seem to notice, Grammaretto that we're living through an attempted coup at this very moment. With a PM who intends to stay put for ever and ever leading a government with a big and compliant majority which is subverting Parliamentary democracy and removing or attacking citizen's rights at every opportunity.

I notice MaizieD.

I also noticed the attempted coup in the USA and how the courts are dictating to the legislature. Nothing is perfect. But that's okay. We simply need to understand the imperfections and work to get the best solution.

I do also "notice", from my generally fence-sitting position, that more and more people are treating politics like religion and therefore looking for the perfection of a heaven. Surely, politics exist to bring about continuous and usually gradual improvement?

Well, this has gone in an interesting direction, but that’s fine. Discussions should develop and allow people to express different views. At the time of posting I was wondering if Prince Charles had actually considered that people in all of the countries that make up the UK might also prefer to ditch the monarchy. I suspect he would fight tooth and nail to prevent it.

I think it’s high time that the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster were brought into the 21st century too.

I do like Prince Charles!

Caleo

I do like Prince Charles!

I think he will make a good King, I hope that I live long enough to see King William.

I suspect our younger GC will see one Queen and three kings in their lifetime.

^ I suspect he would fight tooth and nail to prevent it.^

I don't know. Perhaps he would welcome the fact that he could express his opinions and get involved in politics..

I often wonder if he really does have any influence at all in his present situation. I know he's a great one for letter writing, but the surely recipients can just shrug and ignore them. Or, does he have any power to hold over them?

DaisyAnne I agree with your post, and I'm sure you were not accusing all republicans of being part of a mob so I don't think anyone should take it personally.

It would not be a case of Charles or William saying "I don't want to do this" although who could blame them if they did? It would have to be put to referendum and a certain % majority ensured, unlike the vote on membership of the EU.

I expect change may well come about by the time George might become King although I won't be here to see it.

I like the stability but fully expect we may be nearing the end of a monarchical system.
I wonder if Australia might be next to become a republic with a new republican PM ? So many Australians have no direct hereditary links to Britain.

I think Prince Charles made a good statement there. He puts the onus on other countries, they have the choice, they can make their own decisions. Very diplomtic and hopefully we will see much more of this stance. I am convinced William had some input too.

Charles has spoken out for years but always mocked for doing so.

The ‘royal experts’ write their books and every word is accepted as truth, and how often do we hear ‘Andrew is the
.favourite son’ , never hear how close Edward is to the Queen and Phillip had a very close relationship with Edward.

I think William would be a modern breath of fresh air.But no we don't need all these extra 'Duke & Duchesses of counties, its twaddle.If they're a Prince or Princess, call them so.If not, leave them as they are.

Now you are perfectly entitled to think we should stick with a monarchy. Perfectly entitled. And I am perfectly entitled to tell people that power based on who you dad was is a pre-medieval concept beloved of non-democratic countries and governments around the world

I think we should stick with a monarchy and would vote for that in favour in a referendum because I feel the monarchy gives us stability, especially in uncertain times. The monarch can disagree with his/her Prime Minister and I'm sure the present monarch and her heir let the present PM know that in no uncertain (but polite) terms. I'm sure most Prime Ministers would take heed but the present one has the skin of a rhino. I doubt that he's listened to anyone's advice in his life unless it suits him personally.
It would be extremely difficult to find a completely apolitical president with altruistic motives imo.

It’s rather silly to suggest that we might think having a republic would solve all our problems with everything at one fell swoop. But you can’t hold up examples of bad things happening in republics and use that as an example of why we shouldn’t have one. If you want to have examples of bad things happening in monarchies, Google the Thai monarchy. Or the Spanish one under Juan Carlos.

I can think of countries which had monarchies, got rid of them in various ways then found everything became far worse for the populations when they became dictatorships.

I can think of countries with monarchies where the people are pretty badly off in terms of democracy. Saudi Arabia. Thailand. There are monarchies where things are not as good as they are here. We have had a good 70 years but had Edward VIII not abdicated, things might have been very different indeed.

Being a monarchy doesn't save you from dictatorship.

volver

I can think of countries with monarchies where the people are pretty badly off in terms of democracy. Saudi Arabia. Thailand. There are monarchies where things are not as good as they are here. We have had a good 70 years but had Edward VIII not abdicated, things might have been very different indeed.

Being a monarchy doesn't save you from dictatorship.

Just change that last sentence to:

"Being a monarchy isn't saving you from a dictatorship"

Monarchy is there to do as PM asks and to benefit the monarchy. The Queen and Charles lobbies for their interests uses queen's consent to vet laws for their personal interests that's monarchy

Does not defend our constitution.

Monarchy, on the other hand, precludes equality even as a pretense. There is nothing remotely egalitarian about a system that guarantees, by law, that one family will receive taxpayer-funded grants, literal palaces in which to live, special protections from criminal justice, barely disguised political influence, and the deference of elected politicians. The whole point is that some people are born different—and better—than others. This is a repugnant doctrine.

An Elected Head of State would have to be by law apolitical.

A president would be able to speak about social interests of the people but not political like the Irish President does. The queen says nothing.

A president would be able to speak about social interests of the people but not political like the Irish President does
Oh, not the Irish President again ???

It would be extremely difficult to find a completely apolitical president with altruistic motives imo.

On not that excuse again.

volver

^It would be extremely difficult to find a completely apolitical president with altruistic motives imo.^

On not that excuse again.

On not that excuse again
?

Not an excuse - I doubt that anyone of that description would want the job.

Plenty of altruistic people to choose from who would want the job. Not just three old men from one family

volver

I can think of countries with monarchies where the people are pretty badly off in terms of democracy. Saudi Arabia. Thailand. There are monarchies where things are not as good as they are here. We have had a good 70 years but had Edward VIII not abdicated, things might have been very different indeed.

Being a monarchy doesn't save you from dictatorship.

I don't think anyone has said that being a monarchy saves you from dictatorship. It patently doesn't in some countries.

We are not Saudi Arabia. I would suggest there is less comparison between our constitutional monarchy to their absolute monarchy than between our constitutional monarchy and a president-led republic.

Any one running for President would have to be financially secure or funded by someone who was, that paves the way for bribes…

We are not Saudi Arabia. I would suggest there is less comparison between our constitutional monarchy to their absolute monarchy than between our constitutional monarchy and a president-led republic.

For now.

...and no one is ever bribed by the promise of a knighthood.