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Prince Charles has jeopardised his reign. amoneyccepting

(304 Posts)
lemsip Sun 26-Jun-22 12:25:09

Further controversy is the last thing the Royal Family needs right now. But, once again, the Prince of Wales’s willingness to accept large sums of money from controversial foreign businessmen and politicians has plunged the heir to the throne into murky waters
Bags stuffed with money like a scene from Only Fools and
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10953305/TOM-BOWER-Prince-Charles-jeopardised-reign-Del-Boy-esque-bags-stuffed-money.html

Caleo Thu 30-Jun-22 13:02:50

I too feel th monachy should continue, but the monarch should be a comparatively poor person. The Windsors are too rich to be monarchs.

The Queen's parents had better public relations than the present day Windsors, due to the parents' behaviour during the second world war. True, King George V1 and Queen Elizabeth his consort did wear very posh clothes to visit bombsites but we can forgive that.

The present day Windsors can't afford to be rich and stupid aristocrats as the media are so very intrusive .

DaisyAnne Thu 30-Jun-22 17:08:35

So how does that work Caleo? In a monarchy the eldest son (now child) becomes King/Queen. Are you going to take his money away?

maddyone Thu 30-Jun-22 17:39:25

The allegations have indeed been made in The Guardian. I know that since I’ve read them in The Guardian. I don’t think The Guardian is in any way trying to bring out
any issues on behalf of the government because things are going badly for them.

icanhandthemback Thu 30-Jun-22 20:35:05

Can any rich man really be a good man?

Yes, why not. To insist otherwise would be a very prejudiced view. There are good and bad people in all walks of life be they rich or poor.

DaisyAnne Thu 30-Jun-22 21:22:41

The Guardian was a report of the "report" in the Times which was just a rehash of previously known information maddyone. However you look at it, no one started talking about it until the Times printed it. Why did they rehash an old story just at that moment? This doesn't mean there were no questions to answer and they have been, rightly so. It still begs the question, why now?

I appreciate some need to paint this government whiter than white, but I would suggest that is an impossible job. You can get away with a lot for a long time but not forever. Just look at what is happening to Trump and his wrongdoings at the moment. The chickens will eventually come home to roost however much deflection and division goes on.

Caleo Sat 02-Jul-22 00:44:33

Daisy Anne, some monarchs used to be elected. I'd support elected monarchy especially if no candidate was selected who was very rich.

MaizieD Sat 02-Jul-22 08:36:34

Caleo

Daisy Anne, some monarchs used to be elected. I'd support elected monarchy especially if no candidate was selected who was very rich.

I wish you the best of luck with that, Caleo. Elections seem to be usually won these days by the candidate who can spend enough on propaganda (preferably targetted so no one else knows what lies it's promoting) to brainwash the voters.

DaisyAnne Sat 02-Jul-22 09:07:49

I'm sure many could put forward figures for inspection that say they would fit in your category Caleo. Some will be good people; none will be perfect. That will not take the money out of the equation. As Maizie's post suggests, there will be campaign funds with large donations.

I cannot see this being better than we have now, imperfect though it is.

25Avalon Sat 02-Jul-22 09:16:41

We tried it once without a monarch even chopped the king’s head off but then invited them back albeit with restrictions. Then we swapped monarchs again so Charles beware especially with the name of Charles! Although we have retained the monarchy it didn’t stop us getting rid of ones we didn’t like. Maybe we will swap again?

DaisyAnne Sat 02-Jul-22 09:26:27

He could be King George VII rather than Charles III apparently. George is one of his names.

Anniebach Sat 02-Jul-22 09:31:58

Often the president of Ireland is put forward as an example, a
Labour politician,

If we had an elected President he/she would be involved in a
political party

Parsley3 Sat 02-Jul-22 11:06:10

Rightly or wrongly, I associate the RF with the political party that keeps the rich man in his castle and the poor man at his gate. The conservation of the status quo is the monarch's life work. They may not vote but they are not apolitical, imo.

maddyone Sat 02-Jul-22 11:18:13

Parsley3

Rightly or wrongly, I associate the RF with the political party that keeps the rich man in his castle and the poor man at his gate. The conservation of the status quo is the monarch's life work. They may not vote but they are not apolitical, imo.

Yes, absolutely. They most certainly are political.

Anniebach Sat 02-Jul-22 11:53:43

Suppose so, Charles spoke out about sending refugees to Rwanda and I remember one of his letters to a government was
concern of lack of housing.

Grany Sun 03-Jul-22 08:33:38

Anniebach

Suppose so, Charles spoke out about sending refugees to Rwanda and I remember one of his letters to a government was
concern of lack of housing.

Charles put pressure on John Major's government to change new legislation so that tenants of the Duchy of Cornwall would not be granted their right to buy their homes, a right that is given to every other leaseholder in the country.

So an advantages for Charles and disadvantages to tenants.
The people of CORNWALL think Charles is all take and gives nothing back

Then there were the letters sent to ministers and lobbying queen's consent to vet legislation in their own interests.

Charles cash for honours the Met are investigating.

Monarch Head of State is supposed to be apolitical
A president would have limited powers and be accountable not allowed to interfere in politics.

Grany Sun 03-Jul-22 09:06:10

More shocking stories from Charles. He appoints a donor as chair of a charity (although he should have no legal power to do so), then the charity awards the chair lucrative contracts.

thetimes.co.uk
Prince Charles honoured tycoon Lord Brownlow who bailed out his eco-village
The Prince of Wales gave an honour to a controversial Tory peer who spent £1.7 million bailing out his failed eco-village in a string of secretive deals.

DaisyAnne Sun 03-Jul-22 10:55:41

Caleo

Daisy Anne, some monarchs used to be elected. I'd support elected monarchy especially if no candidate was selected who was very rich.

So the current countries with elected monarchs are:

Cambodia.
Holy See.
Malaysia.
United Arab Emirates.

What can we learn about democracy from these countries, Caleo. What do you think we would gain by changing to this form of monarchy?

DaisyAnne Sun 03-Jul-22 12:50:59

The constitutional democratic monarchy that is the UK can change and adapt and it has done so. The Queen has not been a monarch in the style of Queen Victoria, for example.

We can and do democratically bring power to bear that moves us forward. Re-iteration of the same old issues is not helpful. What changes in convention (rules) would those who are shouting the odds about republicanism put forward to ensure we get the changes we need. There is no way the continuous pouring of ordure on Prince Charles will make a difference to enough people for republicans to get their way. As a fence sitter of the "show me something better and I will consider it" group, I just don't want to listen to anything you say when you do this. There is nothing positive in your outpourings.

As someone has said elsewhere, cutting the head off our constitutional, democratic monarchy has not helped in the past. Some facts about how we could move forward would. The British (all of them, not just the English) do not do constitutional distruction well at all. We have surely realised that from our recent experience. What we do have success with is gradual change. I, and I expect others, would be happy to hear what that change could be.

Grany Sun 03-Jul-22 18:32:08

DaisyAnne

The constitutional democratic monarchy that is the UK can change and adapt and it has done so. The Queen has not been a monarch in the style of Queen Victoria, for example.

We can and do democratically bring power to bear that moves us forward. Re-iteration of the same old issues is not helpful. What changes in convention (rules) would those who are shouting the odds about republicanism put forward to ensure we get the changes we need. There is no way the continuous pouring of ordure on Prince Charles will make a difference to enough people for republicans to get their way. As a fence sitter of the "show me something better and I will consider it" group, I just don't want to listen to anything you say when you do this. There is nothing positive in your outpourings.

As someone has said elsewhere, cutting the head off our constitutional, democratic monarchy has not helped in the past. Some facts about how we could move forward would. The British (all of them, not just the English) do not do constitutional distruction well at all. We have surely realised that from our recent experience. What we do have success with is gradual change. I, and I expect others, would be happy to hear what that change could be.

First a monarchy is not democratic an hereditary HoS is undemocratic.

Monarchy is a broken institution and can't be fixed.

What's broken?
This one family gets £345 million. But it's not just the money it's the principle and principles matter. The monarchy works in the interests of government and itself not the people.

How do we know? The queen does not defend our constitution if a constitutional law has been broken.

The RF do not work
Giving Evidence Royals and Charities a thorough investigation. The RF did not visit 74% of their patronage charities. Charities do not benefit from royal patronage.

Giving Evidence Caroline Finnes tried finding out how many charities RF support Research had to start by identifying which Royal is patron of which charities. This turned out to be vastly more complicated than one might imagine. Prince Charles’ website has a list of his patronages. Buckingham Palace also publishes a list of his patronages. They’re not the same list. It took us six full weeks to construct a defensible list of which Royal is patron of what.

The palace was asked for a spreadsheet of RF charities it said it didn't have one.

Our research was funded by the Belgian Red Cross, Flanders, which has a demonstrated commitment to producing high-quality evidence to inform decisions of operational entities, in the Red Cross network and beyond. Giving Evidence’s Director Caroline Fiennes is on a board of the Belgian Red Cross, Flanders.

We hope that our research enables more evidence-based decisions by patrons, donors and charities, and hence more effective help for their intended beneficiaries.

In palace financial report not everything is listed so not just £104 million true cost £345million.

Yes agree success will be a gradual change

What will change. A Republic An Elected Head of State

The move will only be made once MPs and the public agree to it, although the politicians only have to agree to a referendum, and let the voters decide the rest.

Our elected head of state would be free to speak out on important issues of the day, but would not be allowed to speak on party political matters or get involved in party politics. The head of state could give a voice to the people's concerns or hopes, put new issues onto the public agenda or support community groups and charities in promoting non-partisan causes.

The rules that would govern politicians would also apply to the head of state - these rules would stop them becoming party-political.

The kind of head of state we think is best for Britain is a 'ceremonial' or 'constitutional' position, someone chosen by the people to:

represent the nation
defend our democracy
act as referee in the political process
offer a non-political voice at times of crisis and celebration

DaisyAnne Sun 03-Jul-22 21:56:26

I don't have any objection to people pointing out when what I post is wrong Grany - it's how we learn. What I do mind is the rudeness of someone who re-interprets what was said and does not bother with the courtesy of checking before berating another poster with an unfounded opinion.

I have not read past the first line nor am I intending to. I am not in the least interested in ranting.

25Avalon Mon 04-Jul-22 09:16:44

Property deals involving Prince Charles and Havisham properties are the latest to be investigated by a charity watchdog. Havisham is owned by Tory Lord Brownlow. It relates to properties bought from Charles failed eco Knockroon development in Ayrshire. Perhaps our Scottish friends can fill us in a bit more?

Grany Mon 04-Jul-22 10:14:27

DaisyAnne.

You said you just read the first line of my post. I was saying my opinion regards democracy that we in fact don't have a proper democracy with an hereditary HoS responding to you saying that we have a constitutional democratic monarchy.

I was not berating you that wasn't my intention just stating the facts and my opinion as I see it.

MaizieD Mon 04-Jul-22 10:24:05

Our elected head of state would be free to speak out on important issues of the day, but would not be allowed to speak on party political matters or get involved in party politics. The head of state could give a voice to the people's concerns or hopes, put new issues onto the public agenda or support community groups and charities in promoting non-partisan causes.

And how would that work, Grany seeing that anyone in the public eye who speaks out about anything the government does or doesn't do is immediately branded as attempting 'political' interference?

Who is going to define 'political'? Who is going to decide what is, and what isn't, 'non partisan'? Aren't 'important issues of the day' usually intensely political? Where would climate change fit into all that?

Sorry, but I think that this is just magical thinking.

lemsip Mon 04-Jul-22 10:45:48

but grany you go and on and on..become boring

henetha Mon 04-Jul-22 10:53:17

I overwhelmingly agree with that, lemsip.
The endless ranting, going on and on, is tedious in the extreme. And amounts, in my opinion to propaganda and inappropriate pressure on here. Yes, I know we can all say what we want on here, but I think there is a limit.