Why is Keir Starmer trying to put so many voters off?

It looks like Starmer has sold out - thereby losing the support of all the voters that thought he was an honest politician.

What a missed opportunity for him to speak the truth about brexit and stand up for what is right and what would be best for our country.

He is not the man or the leader I hoped he was.

I did find out the facts though Chewbacca, I’ve read lots about it, and although we all know lots of older people who aren’t Conservative that doesn’t prove anything when on average older people are. I wish that wasn’t the case, in fact I find it unpalatable and frustrating, believe me.

Ok, so some would rather have more of the same, a country run by a corrupt incompetent than vote for a LP with Starmer as leader?
He has integrity, he’s honest, he inherited a dogs breakfast. I’d like to see clarity on self ID. I trust the LP much more on the issues y[than the tories

I would love to agree withmyou Iam64; I'd set my stall out to support Starmer 100%. But his stance on women, women's rights and their ability to have a voice and be recognised and heard, is too big a negative for me. If he won't even allow a women's action group to have a stand at the conference, despite having accepted their booking earlier in the year, he's saying that they shouldn't be seen or heard. How can I vote for him?

There are not just two political parties. Although the FPTP electoral system makes it almost inevitable that power goes to the party of rich people or the party of organised labour, there are other choices for voters.

The Liberal Democrats stand for fairness for all, not just party donors and the recent by-elections in Chesham and Amersham, North Shropshire and Tiverton and Honiton show that many people want a better alternative.

I need to read more about the women’s action group. Is this direct from Starmer?
Labour has good women like Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper, Jess Phillips, Lisa Nandy. Rachel Reeves. I’ve heard Wes Streeting on self ID, he is clear on womens spaces etc.

I voted Labour when Corbyn was leader, though increasingly I disliked and distrusted him. We still lost our good traditional Labour MP at the last election. My constituency is marginal. I couldn’t vote anything but Labour or I’d in effect be voting Tory.

maddyone

He annoyed me when he refused to say what a woman is.

He thinks he's aligning himself with current thinking and appealing to the majority.
However, he's wrong.

I have looked at your link Casdon. It includes a graph that shows clearly that the older you get the greater chance there is you will vote Conservative. I have never argued with that

It also shows that, even then, only about 50% of over 65s vote Conservative, which rather supports my point of sweeping generalisations that are not supported by the facts.

50% of over 65s vote Conservative. 50% do not. More vote Conservative than in younger age groups, however it doesn't follow that therefore the majority vote Conservative.

I have bookmarked your link. It makes interesting reading and supports all my arguments about there being a significant proportion of older voters, in fact about half, who do NOT vote Conservative

Casdon

Okay Monica. Nobody’s accused me of lazy thinking before, but perhaps you’re right. This is interesting though.
theconversation.com/hard-evidence-do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-47910

I’m sure if you felt the opposite, you could come up with a report that said that too.
Does this include all those who don’t vote when they’re young and carry on not voting as they age? Does it include all the current ‘older group’ whatever that is, who don’t vote now?
Or is it saying that the only people who bother to vote as they get older are likely to vote conservative? What a crushing indictment of the other political parties.

Mollygo What I didn't mention is that the older the voter, the more likely they are to vote. But then that also includes those who do not vote Conservative.

Increased voting propensity is spread across the group so then the way they vote is probably equally spread across the range of political parties

The Liberal Democrats are a campaigning party

www.libdems.org.uk/campaigns

Mollygo

Casdon

Okay Monica. Nobody’s accused me of lazy thinking before, but perhaps you’re right. This is interesting though.
theconversation.com/hard-evidence-do-we-become-more-conservative-with-age-47910

I’m sure if you felt the opposite, you could come up with a report that said that too.
Does this include all those who don’t vote when they’re young and carry on not voting as they age? Does it include all the current ‘older group’ whatever that is, who don’t vote now?
Or is it saying that the only people who bother to vote as they get older are likely to vote conservative? What a crushing indictment of the other political parties.

I chose this publication because it is one of the least biased of media publications actually Mollygo.
mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/

I’m afraid I’m really missing something here. Can someone PLEASE explain what Keir Starmer has done that is derogatory to women, and why it is so important that many GNs say they cannot vote Labour at the next GE. Whatever it is, surely it’s not worth opening the door for another Conservative government. I really do want to understand what Keir’s terrible travesty is!

LizzieDrip

I’m afraid I’m really missing something here. Can someone PLEASE explain what Keir Starmer has done that is derogatory to women, and why it is so important that many GNs say they cannot vote Labour at the next GE. Whatever it is, surely it’s not worth opening the door for another Conservative government. I really do want to understand what Keir’s terrible travesty is!

He didn't answer a trick question LizieDrip it was designed to get him involved in the ridiculous discussions going on at the moment about transwomen and ciswomen, and he chose to stay out of it. (God knows what Boris would answer with his track record!!!). I think Starmer is a devious, lying toad who has failed to unite the party as he promised, but I really don't care what he thinks a woman is.

Doodledog

I would love to see AB take over. I'm not sure he will though - he'd have to become an MP first, and if he tried it would be obvious what he was up to, so he would be blocked.

Are you a member Doodledog? If so you will get a vote if Keir Starmer is as unpopular as a group on here seem to think.

LizzieDrip

I’m afraid I’m really missing something here. Can someone PLEASE explain what Keir Starmer has done that is derogatory to women, and why it is so important that many GNs say they cannot vote Labour at the next GE. Whatever it is, surely it’s not worth opening the door for another Conservative government. I really do want to understand what Keir’s terrible travesty is!

He has upset a group which banshee-like appears on thread, after thread, after thread. They are a small group on a smallish forum who don't like being dissagreed with. Obviously they will not all be Labour members or even Labour supporters, so I shouldn't worry. He seems to know what he is doing - which makes a change in our current politics.

I am. I voted for Keir the last time round. If (and it's a big 'if') I get a chance to vote for AB, I will.

LizzieDrip, it's not about trick questions, although it's fair to say that the Tories are trying to make the most of things.

All of the opposition parties (Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, Greens) are in thrall to the trans ideology which says that women are not a sex class - in other words anyone who 'feels' that their 'gender' is a woman is a woman.

Many women object to this, as it means that men have access to all our spaces - can enter changing rooms and watch us undress, can lurk in Ladies' loos (where a friend of mine was seriously assaulted years ago) and not be challenged, can take jobs that were earmarked for women (few as these are) and can take roles such as rape counsellors and so on that have previously been reserved for women for reasons of sensitivity.

Stonewall used to be an organisation fighting for the rights of gay people but switched to a trans rights movement when they had succeeded in getting gay rights, and many politicians are terrified of offending them, so say idiotic things like 'men can have cervixes' and tie themselves in knots to avoid explaining what a woman is (the Stonewall chant is that 'Transwomen ARE women', and they are scared of saying otherwise).

The Tories have got wise to this, and accuse KS of not knowing what a woman is. Of course this is nonsense, as he is an intelligent man, and even an unintelligent one is well aware of what a woman is, but nobody on the side of transactivism knows what a woman is - just ask one. They have invented a term for us - 'cis' (actually they have repurposed a Latin prefix, which means something like 'over here', but never mind).

The whole debacle has left a lot of women worried about voting for parties which will (it appears) sell us down the river and put women's and girls' rights behind those of men.

I agree that opening the door to more Conservative misrule is terrifying, but so is having women's rights pushed back decades. This is why many women feel disenfranchised.

I think we need to remember that, when we vote at a GE, we’re voting for a political party, based on their policies, manifesto etc. We are NOT voting for one person i.e. the leader of that party. It infuriates me when people say ‘I couldn’t vote for Starmer’ - you would be voting for LABOUR not Starmer.

Very true, LizzieDrip.

The trouble is that none of the Shadow Cabinet has a good record on this issue, which is why I am at a loss as to where to place my vote. I just don't know who to vote for this time round, which has never happened before.

I am not getting into a slanging match by using words like 'banshee'; but I will say that women who feel as I do are not a small group on a small board. This may be true on here, but we are many in number across 'real life' and online. At one time, this was a minority issue, but now that transwomen have started using into female sport and winning medals, and insisting that lesbians have sex with them, as otherwise they must be transphobic, and banks are asking employees to declare pronouns on email and badges, more and more people are becoming aware of the issue and joining us in voicing our dissent.

Thanks Doodledog I must admit to finding the whole ‘Starmer doesn’t know what a woman is’ issue baffling. You’ve clarified it for me and I can see how some women might feel disenfranchised. However, would they prefer a Conservative government led by Johnson, whose treatment of women is beyond disgusting!

That may be how it should be LizzieDrip but I have no doubt it isn't how it has been. What would you do about it? Ban those who vote for the person from voting? Good luck with that one.

Above in reply to LizzieDrip Mon 04-Jul-22 21:27:25

LizzieDrip

Thanks Doodledog I must admit to finding the whole ‘Starmer doesn’t know what a woman is’ issue baffling. You’ve clarified it for me and I can see how some women might feel disenfranchised. However, would they prefer a Conservative government led by Johnson, whose treatment of women is beyond disgusting!

I know. It's a real problem, and I have no idea what I will do when it comes to casting my vote.

Blair is waiting to emerge from his lair. He has advised Starmer to drop anything woke.

I never really thought that Starmer would be PM, I think his job was to make the labour party electable in the way Kinnock did, I have a lot of time for Wes Streeting, he actually talks about poverty and class which is quite reassuring.