So the Final 2 - Liz and Rishi

I've been laughing ever since the "just ignore her" comment. Nothing else to do, is there?

Petera

volver

WTA...?

twitter.com/charleshymas/status/1554710430366449664

People who vilify Britain will be treated as extremists and referred to the Government’s deradicalisation Prevent programme under plans by Rishi Sunak.

See you in the camps, sisters...

I expect someone from the Taligran will be along in a minute to defend it.

That’s the whole of Scotland and Wales then. Probably easier for the Tories if we just leave.

MayBee70

Is it just me or is all this becoming totally surreal?

It's not you.

I think it's time they brought back "Drop the Dead Donkey!" Some brilliant story lines for them here.

DaisyAnne

MayBee70

Is it just me or is all this becoming totally surreal?

It's not you.

Oh no it is NOT.

I thought Sunak wanting to class people vilifying U.K. as terrorists of some kind fake news but it isn’t. Good grief!

Defintely not just you MayBee70

Totally surreal. Lies passed off as truth. Uturns left right and centre. Personal insults about elected leaders.

Today in the Daily Mail....'All political careers, Enoch Powell famously said, end in failure. Boris Johnson is a striking exception to that rule.' Does anyone actually believe this rubbish? How do they get away with it.

The horrifying thing is that Sunak appeared to be the sane one! He is desperate to get back into the race and, we should assume after seeing this, is prepared to sound increasingly more extreme to do so.

But how have we reached the point where a national newspaper prints a promise that people who "vilify Britain" will be treated as extremists and referred to the Prevent Deradicalisation Programme? Where else in the western world is such a thing taking place? And where will they draw the line?

We saw Johnson accusing the Labour Party of "running our country down" when they criticised his Government. He also cried out against them saying they were not supporting the NHS, when it was the government they were taking to task. They could easily now conflate "Country" with "the Government" and suddenly free speech is gone.

DaisyAnne

The horrifying thing is that Sunak appeared to be the sane one! He is desperate to get back into the race and, we should assume after seeing this, is prepared to sound increasingly more extreme to do so.

But how have we reached the point where a national newspaper prints a promise that people who "vilify Britain" will be treated as extremists and referred to the Prevent Deradicalisation Programme? Where else in the western world is such a thing taking place? And where will they draw the line?

We saw Johnson accusing the Labour Party of "running our country down" when they criticised his Government. He also cried out against them saying they were not supporting the NHS, when it was the government they were taking to task. They could easily now conflate "Country" with "the Government" and suddenly free speech is gone.

It takes place in books written about dystopian futures

In dystopian books and particularly films, it generally comes out alright in the end, MayBee. My confidence that this will do so is a bit threadbare currently.

“Today in the Daily Mail....'All political careers, Enoch Powell famously said, end in failure. Boris Johnson is a striking exception to that rule.' Does anyone actually believe this rubbish? How do they get away with it.”

Johnson’s WHOLE political career has been a failure, it’s been a lie from start to finish, not many politicians do that badly.

As we are not living in a book or film, I have no confidence that everything will come out all right in the end.

MayBee70

Let’s just hope that, even if they don’t implement it the north remembers this at the next election.

I really hope they do - those who lent their vote to the Tories to get Brexit "done" or prevent Corbyn / Labour from gaining power.

They were promised so much, and "delivered" so little (there's that word again!) by a party that - by its very ideology - does not represent their interests. Well, only in a 'trickle-down' sort of way.

Well, only in a 'trickle-down' sort of way.

A 'crumbs from the rich persons' table' sort of way

Last night Sunak argued the case for leaving the ECHR, saying that it is preventing the Tories from achieving their objectives.

The European Convention on Human Rights. Basically, written by British lawyers after WWII to prevent any European country from becoming a Nazi-style regime again.

And the Tories want to leave it, because it prevents them from achieving their objectives. Think about that.

WWM2

Whitewavemark2

Last night Sunak argued the case for leaving the ECHR, saying that it is preventing the Tories from achieving their objectives.

The European Convention on Human Rights. Basically, written by British lawyers after WWII to prevent any European country from becoming a Nazi-style regime again.

And the Tories want to leave it, because it prevents them from achieving their objectives. Think about that.

Oh, and the less well-informed will cheer him on. Because they think it's the "EU telling us what to do" and interfering in our justice system.

Yes, we helped to formulate the blue-print and were one of the first signatories.

And the Tories want to leave it, because it prevents them from achieving their objectives. Think about that.

I have WWM2, and I despair. We are heading for a dictatorship in all but name.

I'm glad I will be shrugging off this mortal coil before it's fully realised and we are powerless to rescind any rules or policies, and that my whole family has emigrated out of this toxic environment. But what about all those - especially the young - who are stuck with it, whose whole lives will be affected and who will have little recourse to do anything about the bind that they will find themselves in?

I hear and read comments from people urging us to "wake up", but we won't. We are now too far down the rabbit hole.

Two would-be leaders slugging it out over tax cuts, whilst our infrastructure is crumbling, the NHS imploding, social-care and other services disintegrating, people unable to feed themselves, wages stagnating further, the cost of living literally becoming unaffordable, energy prices causing people to face stark choices - even those that are currently 'managing', unrest mounting, strikes looming, the nation ever more divided both by wealth inequality and political bias... and all these two can manage is to argue over when to make the already wealthy even more wealthy. Tax cuts for the rich will see them invest in property which will make it even more unaffordable and send rents sky-rocketing. Those on a low or even modest income will find their tax cuts eaten up immediately by their weekly shop and their fuel bills.

It's utterly depressing.

It's utterly depressing. - indeed so. But what to do about it.....?

As long as we have our archaic voting system we are stuck with this lot - and no way are they going to bring in electoral reform.

I can hardly believe it’s come to this. I’m totally unimpressed with them both.

Two would be leaders slugging it out over tax cuts

Absolutely, one hundred per cent. I agree with this, and I’m not particularly left wing, if anything, more right of centre, but certainly not hard right in any way. I just think all the things that need money and they want to give us tax cuts. Sunak saying 4 pennies off the pound (alright I know not next week) but it’s beyond ridiculous. We all have to pay tax if we qualify in order to pay for our services. I still pay tax as I have an occupational pension, not huge but I get it. I don’t mind paying tax because it provides services. The services we all use.

Those on a low or even modest income will find their tax cuts eaten up immediately by their weekly shop and their fuel bills.

There are people on incomes so low that they don't actually pay any tax. What are 'tax cuts' going to do for them?

Yes indeed Maizie. I’m ideologically opposed to tax cuts for the very reason you cite. Plus I think income tax is more than low enough already. We need services not tax cuts.

Tax cuts are not aimed at the poor or even those on a reasonable salary. It is aimed at the wealthy. They will benefit but no one else will.

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

MayBee70

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

As Starmee has said he will never join forces with the SNP this would be very unlikely.
We are unlikely to have an election in the near future so maybe Labour could get their act together and win on their own merits. Starmer is going to to do a little less sitting on the fence for this to happen

MayBee70

Why is there this attitude in the country of ‘well, there’s no alternative’. We have a very sensible, intelligent, caring shadow cabinet that are quite capable of helping the people of this country through the many problems it’s facing but people seem to have been gaslighted into thinking they don’t exist. I know it will mean a coalition of some kind and will need the backing of the SNP but when they get elected I, for one, will be getting behind them and doing everything in my power to make this country a better place for my children and grandchildren. Something I never thought I would have to be doing at my age.

We'd have to change the voting system for that to happen unless the government of the day didn't have a working majority and formed a coalition with a smaller party.

Last time that happened, the smaller party became unpopular as a result.