Ignore Nicola Sturgeon. She’s just an attention seeker.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes deleted post

Casdon

I think this is about much wider issues than whether Scotland stays in the UK actually, I think it is one of a number of signals of the way Truss views people and countries who don’t share her vision. Hence the stupid statements about taking on Putin, the EU, etc. etc. We are in for a very rocky ride.

Yes, the Scottish referendum is a red herring in this debate.

As I said, I find the prospect quite frightening. I hope she will have advisers who manage to rein her in if she becomes PM.

I think this is about much wider issues than whether Scotland stays in the UK actually, I think it is one of a number of signals of the way Truss views people and countries who don’t share her vision. Hence the stupid statements about taking on Putin, the EU, etc. etc. We are in for a very rocky ride.

On the matter of living abroad - I read/heard somewhere that Tory party members don't have to be British, never mind live here!

I can't find any verification or otherwise on this, does anyone know?

lixy

Greta ^ Has it occurred to him that the issue is not missing appointments – it's getting appointments. ^

All part of the same bundle Greta. My surgery here has a 15% no-show at present, DD's surgery's rate is higher than that. The £10 fine would stop people missing appointments and so free them up for those who need them.

Hi Lixy, I must be the really dim witted one around here and I'd appreciate your explanation as I can't see it.

How would any fine free up appointments? If I made an appointment, and paid £10 or whatever amount, then didn't turn up, the space I created in the surgery would just be taken up by the next person in the queue, the only different being that they might get seen 7 minutes sooner than if I had turned up.

The only point at which my no show would become apparent would be at my appointment time and in general that would be insufficient notice to enable someone else who didn't have an appointment to be slotted in. Even if they simply shuffled everyone along by a few minutes, I doubt if any more appointments would be created at the end as surgeries normally seem to overrun if anything rather than finish early.

But I have clearly missed something here.

I've lived in England, France and Australia. Now I've been back in Scotland for about 17 years.

If I still lived in any of those countries I wouldn't (didn't?) think I had a say in Scotland's future, even though all my family and ancestors are Scottish as far back as you go.

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

Who will be allowed to vote?
The people who are committed enough to Scotland to actually live here

The problem there is that some Scots-born people have had to move away to RUK for work because there are no jobs in their field of expertise but plan to move back when they retire.

It's not always lack of commitment that makes them move away.

But I would support Scotland leaving (in the face of anger from some of my family).
How is it silly to refuse one losing side a new referendum but not the other?

Can I just say...

When talking about the constitutional arrangements for Scotland, turning the conversation to the issues faced by the English in their own country maybe gives you a bit of insight into why we feel we're being ignored.... ?

Riverwalk

It's another on the hoof, ill thought out piece of nonsense.

It's said the £10 fine would be for a second offence, and at the discretion of the practice - both those points could be the start of a dispute, and who would adjudicate?

How would the fine be paid and who would administer the scheme?

Who gets to keep the money?

Load of tosh

You missed the Elephant in the Room Riverwalk you have to be able to get a face-to-face appointment with a GP first, which is nigh on impossible in most parts of England,

You want to have this conversation now? OK.

The things we were promised after 2014 have been denied us; EU Membership, the "Vow", being at the heart of the Union. The landscape has changed and people have voted repeatedly for parties that want to have a referendum. Sturgeon is not imposing her will on the poor downtrodden Scots. We've decided we like what she is offering.

Who will be allowed to vote? Probably the same as last time. The people who are committed enough to Scotland to actually live here.

Your last sentence is just silly, I won't be answering that.

I don’t understand why we don’t just have referenda till Scots on, or not on GN get what they want. Nicola Sturgeon would definitely be the person to organise that.
Why not say it doesn’t have to be a majority vote? We’ve seen that doesn’t make a happy outcome for all.
I wasn’t happy with the Brexit outcome, so if Scotland can establish a ‘do it till you get the answer you want’ precedent . . .
Who will be allowed to vote? E.g. will it be only Scots born in Scotland, wherever they live now? Only Scots living in Scotland now? Scots fulfilling both those criteria? Anyone who pays their taxes in Scotland?

Will those dissenters who are obliged by the result to leave the UK get the right to another referendum to make it fair?

If there is a referendum in a few years time and people do vote to stay in the union, then that should be that. The SNP can then put all efforts into ensuring the best outcome for the people of Scotland within the union.

Thanks for your opinions. We'll bear them in mind.

Maybe.

It's another on the hoof, ill thought out piece of nonsense.

It's said the £10 fine would be for a second offence, and at the discretion of the practice - both those points could be the start of a dispute, and who would adjudicate?

How would the fine be paid and who would administer the scheme?

Who gets to keep the money?

Load of tosh

Glorianny

If Scotland goes please can we shift the border south to the Tyne river or Hadrian's Wall? I know who I'd rather have in charge.

Oh, yes please! It could be better to shift it south of the Tees as well. Mind you, Newcastle Upon Tyne is just about where the Romans placed their boundary.

NS has more ministerial presence than LT will ever have. NS would make a far better PM than Truss that is for sure - just a pity it won’t happen.

I do think that for Scottish people they are more worried about the price of petrol gas and oil, electricity and food, just as we are in England or Wales or Northern Ireland at the moment, more than wanting an instant referendum.
What with Covid, the war raging in Ukraine and fears about the economy, it seems a very wrong time.
I think Ms Sturgeon appears to be what is called a marmite character from all I have read.
If there is a referendum in a few years time and people do vote to stay in the union, then that should be that.The SNP can then put all efforts into ensuring the best outcome for the people of Scotland within the union.

lixy

Greta ^ Has it occurred to him that the issue is not missing appointments – it's getting appointments. ^

All part of the same bundle Greta. My surgery here has a 15% no-show at present, DD's surgery's rate is higher than that. The £10 fine would stop people missing appointments and so free them up for those who need them.

No it wouldn't.

That's it. That's the post.

Greta ^ Has it occurred to him that the issue is not missing appointments – it's getting appointments. ^

All part of the same bundle Greta. My surgery here has a 15% no-show at present, DD's surgery's rate is higher than that. The £10 fine would stop people missing appointments and so free them up for those who need them.

Well I’m rooting for Truss as PM. Sooner she’s elected, sooner the Tories will implode.
Fingers crossed she doesn’t destroy the country in the process. That’s the main concern.

Nicola Sturgeon is leader of the party which was democratically elected by the majority of Scots who want to be able to determine the future of their country, so why wouldn’t she seek attention to the cause? So many people, even those who would vote for independence, will give, ‘ I don’t like Nicola Sturgeon ( or Wee Nippy, or Jimmy Krankie)’ as their reason for not supporting the SNP.

If Scotland goes please can we shift the border south to the Tyne river or Hadrian's Wall? I know who I'd rather have in charge.

The 2014 referendum didn't cause the disruption and dissent that the Unionists tell lies about. It was the most exciting time, I have friends on both sides of the debate and we are still friends.

We also don't need non-Scots telling us what are our most important worries or that the biggest country in the "voluntary" union has more say than we do. And here's a wee reminder. The entity in charge of Scotland's future is Scotland's people, and the sooner folk realise that, the better.

volver

Prentice

Yes volver I will phone Sir Keir Starmer as soon as I have finished the washing and hung it out to dry.
He has always said that Labour would look at this again, but that will not be until after the two years from now.

He's not the one we vote for. His party aren't the one we vote for. Why does he think he's got any say at all?

Then one we vote for wants - and promised - a referendum.

Of course what he and his government says matters, as if Labour is in power in two years then they are in overall control of such matters in the UK, not Ms Sturgeon or the SNP.
Scotland is a devolved country but still has to listen to what the government of the UK says in some areas.
It does seem that Scotland is pretty evenly divided over this, so there are as many people there who so wish to stay in our union as do not.
I think there will be another referendum there, and it will cause much disruption and dissent, but do not think it will happen for a while, as there are far more important worries for all the people in the UK now to face.

Robin49

Kandinsky

It doesn't bode well for our relationship with Scotland at a time when we certainly don't need further division and disharmony

????

NS & the SNP want out of the UK.
They absolutely HATE being part of the UK & want independence ASAP.

Good luck to them, the sooner they go the better. Then the EU can have them because they’ll never be truly independent’ - they’ll just be free from England which is all they want.

Completely agree with you. Please just go Scotland.

If the Scots vote for independence they're not just going to float away into the North Sea! They will be our nearest neighbours and we will need to get on amicably and form diplomatic and trade relationships.

Besides which, many English people live in Scotland and Scots in England and Wales.