The U.K. 2022

I can’t find anything. Anyone got any pointers please?

That’s Starmer’s plan I mean

Apart from the lack of help for schools, hospitals and small businesses, my main problem with Starmer’s plan is that it removes the £400 towards energy bills for everyone, because prices wouldn’t rise again in October. Unfortunately, many people can’t afford to heat their homes at the current rates, so will desperately need that help.

Zonne

Apart from the lack of help for schools, hospitals and small businesses, my main problem with Starmer’s plan is that it removes the £400 towards energy bills for everyone, because prices wouldn’t rise again in October. Unfortunately, many people can’t afford to heat their homes at the current rates, so will desperately need that help.

Where did you read his plan please, I can’t find it. Thanks in advance

Whitewavemark2

Murphy

“the plan could work. I am not convinced by it all for reasons I will note below, but it has, given the objectives Starmer has set for it, a level of plausibility”

“However, the plan remains deeply flawed for many reasons. First of all, it's only for six months. I admit to being baffled as to Starmer's thinking on this. Is the energy price going to fall so dramatically in those six months that this problem will go away by then?”

(I think Starmer addressed this criticism)

“the plan is that it only addresses the issue for households. There is no mention of how schools, hospitals and care homes will pay their bills, or how many businesses will survive this winter.”

(Starmer recognises this but as quoted above, labour initially wants to get households through the winter, and they are working on other issues)

The rest of Murphy’s twitter can be seen on line, but it is basically disagreeing with Labour’s approach to debt and of course pushing MMT.

Interesting, and I would like to see other economists opinion.

Thank you for that Whitewave. A rational post. It will be an interesting week while all the others have their say.

WWM2, I haven’t read the whole plan, to be honest, but there are summaries of the key points in lots of the media today.

Zonne

WWM2, I haven’t read the whole plan, to be honest, but there are summaries of the key points in lots of the media today.

Yes that’s what I’ve found, but I would like to read it for myself and not second hand - through bias etc.

Frustrating. Just doing a bit of housework so will look later.

Starmer basically seems to be agreeing with the plan Ed Davey proposed weeks ago. Cancel rise in pricecap, more windfall tax for excess profit etc

Whitewavemark2

That’s Starmer’s plan I mean

He hasn't made the speech yet Whitewave, so I imagine the whole text is embargoed until he does, with just a press release on the main points.

I don't think Murphy is an economist. He is an accountant with a lot of knowledge in tax as I understand it. Not that it doesn't mean he could come up with some interesting ideas, he could of course. However, that may be why he presents them differently.

varian

Starmer basically seems to be agreeing with the plan Ed Davey proposed weeks ago. Cancel rise in pricecap, more windfall tax for excess profit etc

I'm not surprised. They seem to both be people with two feet firmly on the ground. Unfortunately for Lib Dems, a Labour speech will carry more weight under our current politics.

DaisyAnne

varian

Starmer basically seems to be agreeing with the plan Ed Davey proposed weeks ago. Cancel rise in pricecap, more windfall tax for excess profit etc

I'm not surprised. They seem to both be people with two feet firmly on the ground. Unfortunately for Lib Dems, a Labour speech will carry more weight under our current politics.

Yes Labour is the official opposition.

Thanks DA . Can you give me a heads up if it’s being televised please?

The UK media mostly chose to ignore the Liberal Democrats because they prefer the "drama" of non stop confrontational politics fostered by FPTP.

They pretend that there are only two parties, constantly at loggerheads with each other. No middle way. The prospect of politicians agreeing about anything or deciding to co-operate is anathema to the media. It's just not sensational enough to sell newspapers or make viewers switch on.

DaisyAnne
where
I read that you used the words you and yours
I think this is now considered a personal attack in some quarters ?

The nearest I can find to Labour's plan after a quick search is this press release on their website. I don't know if this helps

labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-sets-out-labours-plan-to-address-the-tory-cost-of-living-crisis/

Spot on Varian!

varian

The UK media mostly chose to ignore the Liberal Democrats because they prefer the "drama" of non stop confrontational politics fostered by FPTP.

They pretend that there are only two parties, constantly at loggerheads with each other. No middle way. The prospect of politicians agreeing about anything or deciding to co-operate is anathema to the media. It's just not sensational enough to sell newspapers or make viewers switch on.

Yes I agree to a point, but there is in parliament, an official opposition, and that is Labour.

The official opposition, by its position, carries more weight than other parties, which is why it gets more exposure.

But I do take your point about FPTP etc.

I like Richard Murphy’s ideas, and have just read his detailed plan for the current crisis which seems to make more sense to me than the current sticking plaster LP plan.

However I am realistic enough to know that most of his ideas will never be adopted by any Party, but there is a need for radical ideas because the Tories do not seem to have any coherent plan for the approaching crisis which is causing serious anxiety.

The weakness in what has been outlined so far by Starmer seems to be no provision for industry, hospitals, schools, and for the businesses and hospitality industry that will fail as everyone tightens their belts.

Whitewavemark2

DaisyAnne

varian

Starmer basically seems to be agreeing with the plan Ed Davey proposed weeks ago. Cancel rise in pricecap, more windfall tax for excess profit etc

I'm not surprised. They seem to both be people with two feet firmly on the ground. Unfortunately for Lib Dems, a Labour speech will carry more weight under our current politics.

Yes Labour is the official opposition.

Thanks DA . Can you give me a heads up if it’s being televised please?

Sorry Whitewave, I got called away. I'm really not sure but I see he is commenting on Sky News. If there was a speech I would guess he has made it - or they are just releasing the whole plan.

Farzanah

I like Richard Murphy’s ideas, and have just read his detailed plan for the current crisis which seems to make more sense to me than the current sticking plaster LP plan.

However I am realistic enough to know that most of his ideas will never be adopted by any Party, but there is a need for radical ideas because the Tories do not seem to have any coherent plan for the approaching crisis which is causing serious anxiety.

The weakness in what has been outlined so far by Starmer seems to be no provision for industry, hospitals, schools, and for the businesses and hospitality industry that will fail as everyone tightens their belts.

Preventing the price cap from rising would help those areas you mention.

Labour are not actually in government. Therefore, they can only give a broad outline. However, you are right; those are areas of concern. Do you know what the government has said it will do to help them?

Farzanah

I like Richard Murphy’s ideas, and have just read his detailed plan for the current crisis which seems to make more sense to me than the current sticking plaster LP plan.

However I am realistic enough to know that most of his ideas will never be adopted by any Party, but there is a need for radical ideas because the Tories do not seem to have any coherent plan for the approaching crisis which is causing serious anxiety.

The weakness in what has been outlined so far by Starmer seems to be no provision for industry, hospitals, schools, and for the businesses and hospitality industry that will fail as everyone tightens their belts.

I am beginning to plough through Murphy’s plan. It is going to take time to digest.

Starmer has answered the criticism on business etc in so far as labours initial emergency was to address the severe crises facing households. This plan only addresses households - the rest is still being worked on.

I do think DA is correct though.

Labour are not in government, and therefore have zero power.

So why should we expect them to spend energy on something which they can never implement?

Their job as the official opposition is to oppose or support as they deem fit.

Labour are putting forward this emergency plan in the hope that it will pressurise the government into giving much more help to pensioners, disabled and less well off families with children who are going to completely sink under the burden.

At the moment there is a complete vacuum as far as the government is concerned and and plan to help distraught households, apart from tax cuts. Tell that to those earning less than the top % of income. Tax cuts won’t touch the sides when it comes to the massive price rises.

The UK is a global laughing stock.

Yes the UK is obviously a global laughing stock. It's amazing that so many people want to move here.

strangely enough, those with skills and jobs where there is a great shortage, have left, and are still leaving, in droves. And no-one is replacing them either. I wonder why?

There is clearly something wrong with an energy industry which enables producers such as Shell and BP to make such huge profits for shareholders, whilst consumers, and eventually governments will have to foot the bill of rising prices.
How can a windfall tax not be justified when there are such excessive profits? I can’t understand the Tory Party reasoning (or sadly I can)