The U.K. 2022

TanaMa

Without down-playing the current situation in the country, I do wonder why many people think the Govt (of whatever colour)) should pay them from cradle to grave. If course history moves on but, my grandparents and parents didn't have c.h., cars, no fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine, ( my parents later in life) or any of the many allowances including 'the dole', even the NHS, and yet they worked and lived their lives according to the best of their ability. My GM had to wheel a barrow with milk churns about 3 miles to collect water when their well ran dry. No shopping on the internet with delivery, but the same 3 miles and back carrying the goods. My GF would gather wood and chop it for the big range and to heat water in the copper for the washing. I know many people grew up in, maybe, similar circumstances but they just carried on and didn't expect anyone to bail them out.
I know I will get unfavourable replies, but I feel so many expect too much from the Govt.

You seem to forget that we are all contributing towards the benefits that we all claim at some time. This includes the state pension which is by far the greatest proportion. Here is a chart of benefits paid in February 2021

Benefit Number of claimants
State Pension 12,355,000
Universal Credit 5,948,000
Housing Benefit 2,907,000
Personal Independence Payment 2,663,000
Employment and Support Allowance 1,846,000
Attendance Allowance 1,493,000
Pension Credit 1,447,000
Disability Living Allowance 1,347,000
Carer’s Allowance 1,301,000
Jobseeker’s Allowance 264,000
Income Support 247,000

One of the reasons for the introduction of NI Contributions was to provide a support network "from the cradle to the grave" for those falling through the net.

I'm almost tempted to go into "we were so poor we didn't even have a cardboard box to live in" mode. (With thanks to Monty P)

We all know how things have changed throughout our lifetimes.

Gabrielle56 Exactly.

Thank you, Tanama,
That is the most sensible post I have ever seen.
There is no backbone anymore.
We used to be so much poorer than we are today, but where has our cheerfulness gone?

wicklowwinnie

Thank you, Tanama,
That is the most sensible post I have ever seen.
There is no backbone anymore.
We used to be so much poorer than we are today, but where has our cheerfulness gone?

Well, it's the difference between living in a society that cares for all its members, or one where dog eats dog and the weak go to the wall.

It's easy to be cheerful under most circumstances, but there is nothing particularly virtuous about poverty and hardship.

Costco petrol has been around £1.55 with small fluctuations, for a couple of weeks now, so same/cheaper than France. On a recent trip, we noticed that petrol prices generally in the Lake District were much lower than the Midlands where we live. There are variations throughout UK on all consumer goods so be selective if you can. Its not all things France good, and all things UK bad.

TanaMa

Without down-playing the current situation in the country, I do wonder why many people think the Govt (of whatever colour)) should pay them from cradle to grave. If course history moves on but, my grandparents and parents didn't have c.h., cars, no fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine, ( my parents later in life) or any of the many allowances including 'the dole', even the NHS, and yet they worked and lived their lives according to the best of their ability. My GM had to wheel a barrow with milk churns about 3 miles to collect water when their well ran dry. No shopping on the internet with delivery, but the same 3 miles and back carrying the goods. My GF would gather wood and chop it for the big range and to heat water in the copper for the washing. I know many people grew up in, maybe, similar circumstances but they just carried on and didn't expect anyone to bail them out.
I know I will get unfavourable replies, but I feel so many expect too much from the Govt.

Surely most of us don't mind chipping in a bit when we can, so that the safety net is there for everyone, isn't it just being civilised

cakehunter

Costco petrol has been around £1.55 with small fluctuations, for a couple of weeks now, so same/cheaper than France. On a recent trip, we noticed that petrol prices generally in the Lake District were much lower than the Midlands where we live. There are variations throughout UK on all consumer goods so be selective if you can. Its not all things France good, and all things UK bad.

Nobody has said that "all things France good, and all things UK bad". it's just that most things are better in France at the moment. And I'm not boasting or point scoring.

But ‘most’ things are better in France at the moment? You’re not boasting it’s your perspective. If I ignore media clickbait and look at the facts, I believe that my life in the UK is reasonably good too.

Two words depressing and scary

What is?

Well said, Gabrielle 56. Yes we need proportional representation and a coalition to deal with the UK's current crises. It is a national emergency. Instead we go for petty party politicking and short termism, never looking beyond who can win the next election. We should be making long term plans for the challenges of the future. I'm approaching my 80s and have seen difficult times and crises come and go, but I've never felt as down as I do at the moment. The country is not pulling together and we are storing up endless problems for future generations. What makes me most angry is the lack of compassion at the heart of government and the embeddedness of cronyism, and devil take the hindmost.

That’s the reality. Unfortunately the bright future promised by BJ and the “unleashing” and “turbocharging” the UK economy is a fantasy or it would have happened by now. We are vulnerable to world events we cannot control, and have an absent and incompetent government.

Good post Dinahmo. Harking back to the past will not help people pay their extortionate fuel bills now. We pay taxes and NI for benefits when we need them-govt seems to ignore this basic fact.

TanaMa

Without down-playing the current situation in the country, I do wonder why many people think the Govt (of whatever colour)) should pay them from cradle to grave. If course history moves on but, my grandparents and parents didn't have c.h., cars, no fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine, ( my parents later in life) or any of the many allowances including 'the dole', even the NHS, and yet they worked and lived their lives according to the best of their ability. My GM had to wheel a barrow with milk churns about 3 miles to collect water when their well ran dry. No shopping on the internet with delivery, but the same 3 miles and back carrying the goods. My GF would gather wood and chop it for the big range and to heat water in the copper for the washing. I know many people grew up in, maybe, similar circumstances but they just carried on and didn't expect anyone to bail them out.
I know I will get unfavourable replies, but I feel so many expect too much from the Govt.

Is that how you think people should live now? And why shouldn’t extra help be given to get through what is a very serious situation and recouped later through taxes?

Well said!

TanaMa

Without down-playing the current situation in the country, I do wonder why many people think the Govt (of whatever colour)) should pay them from cradle to grave. If course history moves on but, my grandparents and parents didn't have c.h., cars, no fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine, ( my parents later in life) or any of the many allowances including 'the dole', even the NHS, and yet they worked and lived their lives according to the best of their ability. My GM had to wheel a barrow with milk churns about 3 miles to collect water when their well ran dry. No shopping on the internet with delivery, but the same 3 miles and back carrying the goods. My GF would gather wood and chop it for the big range and to heat water in the copper for the washing. I know many people grew up in, maybe, similar circumstances but they just carried on and didn't expect anyone to bail them out.
I know I will get unfavourable replies, but I feel so many expect too much from the Govt.

Can't you see that your points are as meaningless as saying that people used to survive in caves, without clothes, shops or anything else that is now seen as essential?

You are totally ignoring the realities of modern life, and the fact that the options open to our grandparents/great grandparents are not available now, so are actually irrelevant.

You will all be surprised that Conservative.voters like me are thinking no new Govt can fix the state we are in. First we had COVID, then President Biden left Afghanistan which was a disaster particularly for women.and to top it all Russia invaded Ukraine. We could not have anticipated these occurrences but the Conservative govt has not handled the situation well. I think we all must admit that the current crop of politicians are not the best we have experienced.

However, I doubt that neither candidate to be PM is very credible and maybe we do need a general election, although I am not sure that Sir Keir Starmer will make much of an impact. But he cannot be worse than my lot. I lived through WW2 and my parents emigrated to Australia but returned in 1975 and things were not so good then. But this is the worst situation I can remember. What angers me most is that politicians do not realise that ordinary law abiding people cannot pay the ridiculous energy bills nor the increased price of associated services. The police presence in my area of London is non existent band the NHS is in dire circumstances. It feels as though the country is falling apart. I just thought I would say I agree with the pessimists and cannot see the way out and I fear civil unrest.

The problem, at the money, is that no one appears to be in charge, and while everything is collapsing, the Tories are playing the latest Game of Thrones for a new leader.

There is not one sector or department in this country that apoears to be operating efficiently.

I think there will be real trouble soon, unless things rapidly improve.?

“You are totally ignoring the realities of modern life, and the fact that the options open to our grandparents/great grandparents are not available now, so are actually irrelevant.”

We would like it to be irrelevant today, the cost of todays lifestyle has got to be found somewhere, increasingly it comes from borrowing not enterprise

Katie59

“You are totally ignoring the realities of modern life, and the fact that the options open to our grandparents/great grandparents are not available now, so are actually irrelevant.”

We would like it to be irrelevant today, the cost of todays lifestyle has got to be found somewhere, increasingly it comes from borrowing not enterprise

Are you referring to individuals' personal borrowing or the state 'borrowing' that is either people's savings and investments or is newly created money?

Anniel

You will all be surprised that Conservative.voters like me are thinking no new Govt can fix the state we are in. First we had COVID, then President Biden left Afghanistan which was a disaster particularly for women.and to top it all Russia invaded Ukraine. We could not have anticipated these occurrences but the Conservative govt has not handled the situation well. I think we all must admit that the current crop of politicians are not the best we have experienced.

However, I doubt that neither candidate to be PM is very credible and maybe we do need a general election, although I am not sure that Sir Keir Starmer will make much of an impact. But he cannot be worse than my lot. I lived through WW2 and my parents emigrated to Australia but returned in 1975 and things were not so good then. But this is the worst situation I can remember. What angers me most is that politicians do not realise that ordinary law abiding people cannot pay the ridiculous energy bills nor the increased price of associated services. The police presence in my area of London is non existent band the NHS is in dire circumstances. It feels as though the country is falling apart. I just thought I would say I agree with the pessimists and cannot see the way out and I fear civil unrest.

Good on you for having the guts and honesty to say this, Anniel.

Goldman Sachs say inflation is going to reach 22% next year.

Whitewavemark2

Goldman Sachs say inflation is going to reach 22% next year.

Oh my.

Just listening to Emily Maitlis lecture - really worth a listen.

A permanent war with the left is bad for Keir Starmer, the party and the country

labourlist.org/2022/08/a-permanent-war-with-the-left-is-bad-for-keir-starmer-the-party-and-the-country/