Transphobic Bullying

Doodledog

Smileless2012

As you say MissA that's precisely the point everybody has been making.

Quite.

And yes, Callistemon - 'old' forms of bullying have not gone away. Fashions change, is all, and I very much doubt that any of it is born of 'phobias'. Children are not likely to be phobic about gay people, transpeople or very much else, really. In my experience they are very accepting of difference on a day to day level. If when they are together they use words connected with difference as insults it is because (a) those words have power in their school or other social circle, and (b) because they see adults jockeying for position in various ways and learn that this is how people behave.

The reasons why some words have more power than others are various (eg 'the C word' is still seen as the greatest insult because it is about women's sexuality in a patriarchal society), but if children have to listen to lessons about 'LGBTQ+ issues' (as described by VS in her post of Tue 16-Aug-22 12:31:31) they will see that the terms used in them have power to exercise adults, and that could explain why they are being used just now.

If (as has been said over and over) people from all groups are seen as normal as opposed to 'special', the words will lose their power, just as many 'swear words' have done in the past, eg Bloody Hell is seen as relatively mild these days, but 'By Our Lady in Hell', where it came from, was considered extremely blasphemous at one time. Similarly, 'sod' as in 'Sod off' is another relatively mild insult, but when the word was more directly linked to sodomy, which was illegal, it was much stronger. Words do not have intrinsic power - they are given it by the people who use them.

Oh Doodledog you are way behind the times. The word cunt has been reclaimed and is used by many women now. It's about the status fuck was in the 1980s That's so commonly used now its virtually irrelevant.

No, I am not behind the times, I am just respectful of others' sensibilities and know that many people find the word offensive.

You really do think you are the only person on here to have moved beyond 1975, don't you??

And yet again, in an attempt to be 'clever', you ignore the pertinent part of my post, which was addressing the reasons why some words are used to belittle others.

I find the word offensive.

It might not be phobic but it is very certainly fear. It's fear that is behind most sorts of discrimination and it's discrimination that drives some bullying. The sort of fear that insists trans people are somehow plotting to destroy women. The sort of fear that used to exist about black people and still exists about Muslims, immigrants and many other sorts of people.

All of those people are protected by hate crime and discrimination, as well as anti bullying protocols and laws.

Doodledog

No, I am not behind the times, I am just respectful of others' sensibilities and know that many people find the word offensive.

You really do think you are the only person on here to have moved beyond 1975, don't you??

Sorry but if you think the C word' is still seen as the greatest insult because it is about women's sexuality in a patriarchal society you either don't listen to many young women talking, or you are unaware of how things have changed. Either way it isn't a great insult any longer.
Arguably when it was used as an insult that was fear as well.

Fear can drive stereotyping, which can lead to prejudice, and prejudice can lead to discrimination.

Bullying is rather different. Are you suggesting that people were/are afraid of glasses, or fat people?

Doodledog

Fear can drive stereotyping, which can lead to prejudice, and prejudice can lead to discrimination.

Bullying is rather different. Are you suggesting that people were/are afraid of glasses, or fat people?

I think bullying which uses language which is racist, homophobic or transphobic is obviously based on fear.
I must say I hadn't thought about fat, but a lot of girls are terrified of being fat so perhaps there is a link.
Much bullying based on disability is linked to religious beliefs about people who are not physically perfect being in some way evil. So yes fear probably links in there as well.

Which brings us back to what we have been saying, which is that all forms of bullying are basically the same. Someone doesn't like someone else, and finds a reason to turn others against them. They are fat, they wear glasses, they have a different religion, they are a different colour, whatever it is.

Separating it out into 'forms of bullying' won't help to get to the bottom of it, IMO. A zero tolerance approach is probably the best way, but there will inevitably be injustices as a result, as Molly's example shows.

Tri! And now we have yet another form of bullying,
by denigrating what other people might find offensive with phrases like, you are way behind the times.
I find the C word offensive and the people who use it extremely rude. You don’t, and we are both entitled to our opinions.
The bullying aspect is where you try to rubbish someone’s views with phrases like,* behind the times* for disliking it.

There are several young women in my family and I know many young women, daughters and granddaughters of friends, and I don't think they use the 'c' word or find it acceptable at all.
Perhaps we move in different circles, Glorianny.

Yes, that’s bullying. Denigrating the person rather than addressing the opinion.

Make it personal. Sneer. Despise. Attempt to belittle. Suggest inferiority.

?

Are you addressing me Lathyrus?

If so, your statement has no basis in fact.

Moving in different circles does not imply inferiority.
Just different.

Callistemon21

There are several young women in my family and I know many young women, daughters and granddaughters of friends, and I don't think they use the 'c' word or find it acceptable at all.
Perhaps we move in different circles, Glorianny.

Perhaps some of them are moderating their language when with you Callistemon21 Who knows?
I try not to move in circles. I do like meeting new people.

Lathyrus will speak for herself, I'm sure, but I think she was talking about Glorianna's comment to me, Callistemon, when she claimed I was behind the times for not spelling out a word that is considered offensive by many women.

If so, thanks, Lathyrus. It happens a lot, but it's good to know that people see it for what it is.

I try not to move in circles. I do like meeting new people.

? I like the family I've got already and my friends too.

However, it's always good to meet new people too.

Doodledog

Lathyrus will speak for herself, I'm sure, but I think she was talking about Glorianna's comment to me, Callistemon, when she claimed I was behind the times for not spelling out a word that is considered offensive by many women.

Oh, ok, thanks Doodledog

Mollygo

Tri! And now we have yet another form of bullying,
by denigrating what other people might find offensive with phrases like, you are way behind the times.
I find the C word offensive and the people who use it extremely rude. You don’t, and we are both entitled to our opinions.
The bullying aspect is where you try to rubbish someone’s views with phrases like,* behind the times* for disliking it.

Sorry if you think it's bullying to say someone is behind the times. The fact remains the word is widely used now and not the no-no it once was. Of course anyone is entitled to find it offensive but that doesn't mean others don't use it, or that it isn't commonly used. The two have no connection.

That's as maybe, and I didn't suggest that nobody uses it. The fact remains that this is a public board, and it is basic manners to repeat the sensibilities of others.

It's ironic that you are lecturing others about bullying when you clearly have no problem with inflicting your own standards on others. You can't possibly be unaware that a lot of people (particularly women) find the word offensive, whether or not you feel the same.

Anti-bullying policies, in line with other Equal Opps ones, are based on awareness of differences and an ability to respect others who may feel or behave differently from ourselves.

By the way all of you gender critical feminists might like to have a look at reclaiming the word, its origins and why some young women see it as a powerful force in feminism. Just Google reclaiming the word cunt. There's loads of stuff.

Callistemon21

There are several young women in my family and I know many young women, daughters and granddaughters of friends, and I don't think they use the 'c' word or find it acceptable at all.
Perhaps we move in different circles, Glorianny.

Umm, no I was following on from Mollygo.

“denigrating what people find offensive etc”

Just a bit slow?

Yes and yours Doodle.

Probably shouldn’t have looked at this before bedtime.?

Glorianny

By the way all of you gender critical feminists might like to have a look at reclaiming the word, its origins and why some young women see it as a powerful force in feminism. Just Google reclaiming the word cunt. There's loads of stuff.

Oh for goodness' sake!

We know that others have reclaimed the word. We know why! We may even use it ourselves. We don't live in bubbles. That is not a reason for doing so on a board read by people who might find it offensive though.

Can you really not see that?

People might find 'trans slurs' acceptable, but that doesn't mean that it is ok to use them in schools. It's the same thing.