Transphobic Bullying

Smileless2012

Sometimes it needs the perpetrator to see their victim doesn't it Doodledog to see the impact their crime has had, as you say.

I've no personal experience but I can see how coming face to face with the perpetrator, especially is there's genuine remorse, can help the victim deal with the feelings of fear and vulnerability that they must be left with.

I think it will vary hugely across cases, but if someone who has built up the perpetrator in their minds as big and scary, and has maybe let a violent incident make them agoraphobic, seeing that he is a scruffy inadequate junkie who is terrified of prison can break the spell.

Lathyrus

Glorianny

Lathyrus

Your solution to bullying is to move the victim???‍♂️

I didn't suggest it Lathyrus It was suggested to VS as a solution to the problem in her child's school, so I just thought the same thing should be suggested to Mollygo

So you would suggest it as a solution?

Or do you mean you were just having a dig at Mollygo?

I wouldn't know. I'm not in a possession of all the facts. It's not advice I would give to anyone.On the other hand I know some bullying is really bad and one of my DS's dropped out of school because his life was threatened by someone who is now in prison for murder. So leaving a school probably saved his life. But that decision isn't mine to make in either of these cases.

It wasn't a dig I was simply balancing the response to two cases of bullying. Do you object to equality?

??????

It's that passive aggressive thing I always get accused of lol

I could never aspire to some of the mastery I've seen

“Perhaps as far as your problem is concerned.. you should move your GD to another school”

“I didn’t suggest it”

I think it’s worth a?

Genuinely have no idea what's going on?

Really? We empathetic types with high EQ can see perfectly well what's going on.

Lol

OK doodledog

Doodledog

Really? We empathetic types with high EQ can see perfectly well what's going on.

Lol

We certainly can.

MissAdventure

Surely a robust anti bullying policy is enough to deal with any sort of hateful speech/actions or whatever?
No one particular group needs to get special consideration.

I'm with you, I attended senior school in the 60's, my kids attended in the 80's, and my GC have fairly recently left their schools.

Except one, who is at a drama school, and in her last year.

There has always been bullying, about a vast variety of things.

Trans is just the latest issue, because it's in the news.

The best way is to confront individual schools, if your child is being bullied. Push it, if your concerns aren't answered.

But, it doesn't matter what the issue is - bullying is wrong, full stop.

One bullied child is no worse off than another bullied child.

I took my kids to self defence classes, which seemed to ensure they didn't get bullied. If nothing else, it gave them the confidence to stand up to any attempts at bullying.

I also told them that if they bullied anyone, for any reason, I would be down on them like a ton of bricks.

GD attends a drama/acting school, and a lot of the students dress in any gender and wear their hair etc very outlandishly - not all trans, by any means, just that "eccentricity" that a lot of young people, wanting to get into show-biz, display.

There is no bullying - the school won't allow it, and the students worked so hard for the places/scholarships, they won't jeopardise their futures by getting thrown out.

So, schools need to forget worrying about just one "cause" and stop all bullying. And parents need to reinforce this.

There was a young girl, hounded out of her school recent,y, because she "dared" to try and debate the trans issue with the facilitator.

That was bullying in its worst form. A disgraceful example set by that school.?

Agreed, DL.

I would never minimise bullying of anyone from whatever group, but singling out one group of children, having lessons about them and policies about how they may be addressed, accusations of 'phobia' against those who fall out with them, preferential treatment about things like which toilets they use and so on are all things that poke at other children's sense of what is fair. Fairness really matters to children, as they have so little power of their own.

The fact that one of the few ways for children to get status is to put others down, that they see adults doing likewise, and that the government encourages division and scapegoating rather than co-operation and problem-based (rather than blame-based) solutions all contribute to the reasons for bullying in general.

Social media can be toxic, and a lot of posts about trans issues are particularly so. People (particularly women) are singled out and persecuted for defending women's rights, and older children in particular are often very news aware. They also hear of cases where women are attacked by self-identified 'transwomen'.

School staff are hidebound by Stonewall's Diversity Champion agenda (even though it appears that not all of them realise that), and managers run scared of accusations of transphobia, so there is an atmosphere of fear in some schools. Children being bullied by self-identified trans children face a double whammy, as on top of the bullying they may be accused of 'phobia' and their only recourse is to staff who are afraid to help them (as seen by the case DL has highlighted and the case of Molly's grand-daughter) or to people who are 'captured' by Stonewall.

We have seen on this very thread that words have the power to get a reaction, and this is backed up by a different one with many posts in favour of a family estranging because an old man used a particularly taboo word after a few drinks. Of course children want to push boundaries by using powerful words - they always did.

All of the above are possible reasons why 'transphobic bullying' may be happening (although if it is not happening to trans children I am not sure that I would define it as such). All have been highlighted in various ways upthread, yet there are still accusations that nobody is addressing the issues, suggestions that people who have worked in education for decades don't understand these issues, and a refusal to engage rationally (as opposed to rubbishing) with the above suggestions.

Bullying of any and all groups of children is important to all of us. Many of us have worked in education and many have children and grandchildren. Of course we all care about the issue, and the implication that only one or two people on the thread care is both incorrect and offensive.

There is no bullying - the school won't allow it I wish all schools were the same DL with a zero tolerance approach to bullying.

We were the same. bullying is a big NO and our boys were well aware that they'd have been in big trouble if either were ever accused of bullying.

That's an appalling example of how much damage has been done to whole trans issue. Shutting down debate, attempting to silence anyone who isn't in total agreement is as you say bullying in its worse form.

Of course we all care about the issue, and the implication that only one or two people on the thread care is both incorrect and offensive it's a pity that this needed highlighting Doodledog, but it's true.

So if no one type of bullying in schools is worse than another

No one type of bullying in adulthood is worse than another?

I suppose that depends on who is defining it as bullying. If assualt is involved it will come under one crime, if the victims have special protection under 'hate crime' legislation it will come under another, and so on.

Why do you ask?

Lathyrus

“Perhaps as far as your problem is concerned.. you should move your GD to another school”

“I didn’t suggest it”

I think it’s worth a?

Funny isn't it how all these empathetic people, who would never gaslight choose to edit posts to suit their own agenda. Just a few missed out words can change everything.
Still I'm not going to repost what I said
I'm sure with the degree of empathy exhibited on this thread to the two people who disagree about other's perceptions of things, you will be absolutely aware of our feelings, although of course respecting feelings is an entirely different issue.
I wonder where does deliberately misquoting someone come on the bullying scale?

Some bullying may be more serious especially if it's goes on for a long time or includes physical attacks.
The topics of bullying, whether trans or specs-wearing, are less important. They are simply chosen as whatever the bully thinks will be most hurtful.

If you aren't going to show us what you mean, it is impossible to say, really.

Replying to VS

Well there are 4 main types of bullying

Verbal, which some agree has more lasting effects than physical, so that would be name calling, teasing and threats.

Physical, which is any attempt to hurt a victim, which can range from flicking, tripping, violence or threats of physical violence.

Social, which focusing on ostrasising a person, damaging their reputation, spreading lies and gossip, preventing them seeking support.

Cyber bullying, which is done using mobile phones and makes it difficult for the victim to get away. It can be anonymous, done from miles away and includes setting up fake or alternate accounts to harass, verbally attack catfish or send viruses etc.

Those are the main types and even within those types there is bullying that has more long reaching consequences or mean a victim can't get away from it pr get a break from it, due to the popularity of social media

Bullying in any form is wrong, as has been said numerous times.

But more and more, we are learning that other types of bullying should be added to that

Prejudicial and Sexual as two examples

Now even of you don't see one of those types of bullying as "worse" than another

It's surely worse if people are experiencing more than one type?

FarNorth

Some bullying may be more serious especially if it's goes on for a long time or includes physical attacks.
The topics of bullying, whether trans or specs-wearing, are less important. They are simply chosen as whatever the bully thinks will be most hurtful.

Yes. Just as narcissists have an unerring ability to strike at what hurts a victim most, many bullies are able to do likewise. I think there is a lot of overlap.

Advice to children is often 'don't show then that you're upset', because the bullies aren't really bothered about hairy legs or glasses or red hair - they are bothered about getting a reaction.

In adult life, the closest parallel with school would be workplace bullying, which will either be peer-to-peer and usually covered by discrimination policies, or manager-staff (eg setting unreasonable targets, constant undermining etc) which will have its own descriptors and consequences. Adults are not compelled to stay in environments other than work if they are being bullied, unlike children, which is why bullying flourishes in schools.

Doodledog

If you aren't going to show us what you mean, it is impossible to say, really.

If you were at all interested Doodledog you could scroll back and discover what I really said. There aren't that many posts from me so it isn't difficult.

I mentioned ACEs before which are adverse childhood experiences

Different types of bullying add to ACEs and the more types of bullying a child experiences the worse the outcome as an adult.

So if we look at the 6 types of bullying I have mentioned (so far)

Verbal
Physical
Social
Cyber
Prejudicial
Sexual

Which are often comorbid

Eliminating one type, would be a better outcome for children

So do we as adults have responsibility to eliminate prejudice in society? Especially when children are being bullied due to gender norms and that has roots in sexism.