Transphobic Bullying

VioletSky

Ah this nonsense again. I'd address it again but it doesn't actually matter

I can teach empathy but can't force others to learn

And I can walk away from it, I have so much more to enjoy in life

?

VioletSky it really is rather rude of you to keep dropping posts like this. Who are you saying is posting rubbish?

You say you can teach empathy, are you fully trained and certified to do so? If so may I ask where you had your training?

I've always understood it was to hopefully benefit the victim of crime as well as the perpetrator Rosie, but I know what you mean when you say it's often portrayed as being therapy for the offender.

I don't think the poster can walk away from the subject,
In my opinion she has an unhealthy obsession with it, and this will be the first of endless threads on the same topic.

How can you teach empathy when you dismiss what people say as 'nonsense', VS? Surely you should have learn to listen to what they say and understand why they feel like that before presuming to teach empathy to others?

Since last night, things I have said have repeatedly been 'rubbished' by both you and Glorianna. I have been re-told things I have just said, had things explained to me that I have already posted about, and told both that I hadn't grasped something and not understood another. Oh, and that I am behind the times. (I am not alone in receiving this treatment, but will let others speak for themselves)

Is this showing empathy? Or could it be described as bullying? Maybe if you have a think about why you are doing it you might gain some insight into why children do it?

Smileless2012

I've always understood it was to hopefully benefit the victim of crime as well as the perpetrator Rosie, but I know what you mean when you say it's often portrayed as being therapy for the offender.

I think it is for both - to get closure for the victim, and to help the offender to realise the impact of their actions. Many don't really see beyond their immediate need for drugs or whatever, and it is hoped that realising the impact on the victim will help them not to re-offend. It came up a while ago in a conversation with my relative, after there had been something on TV, I think.

Sometimes it needs the perpetrator to see their victim doesn't it Doodledog to see the impact their crime has had, as you say.

I've no personal experience but I can see how coming face to face with the perpetrator, especially is there's genuine remorse, can help the victim deal with the feelings of fear and vulnerability that they must be left with.

There is considerable evidence that empathy can be taught it begins with lessons in emotional intelligence something which began in schools over 20years ago and which I accept has probably been left by the wayside as the huge shift in society and education from a caring supportive concept to a self centred aquisitive ethos has happened. Basically empathy begins with understanding your own emotions, dealing with them and then moving out to look at the emotions of others. Children given help with what was known as EQ as distinct from IQ tended to do better and make more progress, besides interacting more easily with their peers

There is considerable evidence . . . And you found that where?

Basically empathy begins with understanding your own emotions, dealing with them and then moving out to look at the emotions of others

But that doesn’t go far enough. You can move out and look at the emotions of others, but as I have observed on here, if you don’t consider your impact on others emotions, e.g. when you accuse them of lying, or rubbish their points of view, which is a form of bullying, then the empathy teaching hasn’t achieved anything and the learning has not taken place.

Exactly Mollygo. Part of understanding your own emotions is being aware of how they impact on others. How it impacts on someone to say they are lying, or seeking to undermine them by saying they don't understand, when in reality it isn't that they don't understand, it's that they just don't agree with you.

Mollygo

There is considerable evidence . . . And you found that where?

Basically empathy begins with understanding your own emotions, dealing with them and then moving out to look at the emotions of others

But that doesn’t go far enough. You can move out and look at the emotions of others, but as I have observed on here, if you don’t consider your impact on others emotions, e.g. when you accuse them of lying, or rubbish their points of view, which is a form of bullying, then the empathy teaching hasn’t achieved anything and the learning has not taken place.

You can think you understand your own emotions, think you are dealing with them, think you are “moving out to look at the emotions of others” and still be totally wrapped up in yourself and insensitive to others.

Sometimes people have a absolutely delusional sense of who they are.

They think others see them as they see themselves and often people are fooled for a while. I know Zi have been. But ultimately people just can’t help being themselves.

I think you can develop empathy in the majority of people but there will always be some who can only ever operate within their own reality.

You see that in some of the AIBU threads on Mumsnet, where posters explain to someone why they have been unreasonable, in their relationship or whatever the situation is, but the original person keeps justifying themself and won't accept any of what's said.

Or Judge Judy?

As I said Mollygo we started teaching EQ over 20 years ago when it was discovered that one of the reasons children from difficult homes failed in school was because they came into school with emotional problems that interfered with their learning. Teaching them to understand how they were feeling, how to deal with negative emotions and building confidence and positivity increased their learning ability.
I said empathy begins with.
I have sympathy for every child involved in bullying including the bully. I have sympathy for the children's families. That doesn't mean I can't examine the subject dispassionately and perhaps draw different conclusions. It doesn't help anyone if conclusions are jumped to.

I will repeat disagreeing with someone, pointing out that there is a legal process which can deal with a problem, questioning stories children tell to their families is not accusing anyone of lying. It is asking that they examine the problem carefully and consider some other routes to a conclusion.

But as far as your problem goes perhaps you should do what someone advised VS to do and move your GD to a different school.

By the way if you are at all interested in EQ just google it, there's loads of information about teaching, becoming aware of emotions and developing empathy.
And developing empathy does not mean you have to agree with everything someone says or support them.
I think Mollygo has sufficient support on these threads to reinforce her perceptions. It does no harm for someone to occasionally question assumptions.
As for me my relationship with anyone on GN isn't particularly important to me. I don't post personal information regularly nor do I rely on anyone on GN for emotional support which is probably just as well really. As some seem unable to accept criticism or questioning without casting personal aspersions when they reply.

Your solution to bullying is to move the victim???‍♂️

Yes the personal aspersions are just nonsense

I went through a phase of thinking I could address them and make people understand that it's wrong to do it but today I decided not to waste time and energy on trying to explain myself anymore because as much patience as I have, it isn't limitless.

Plus it doesn't really affect me that much, I can handle some people online disliking me and looking for ways to prove me a bad person for whatever reason floats their boat.

I think others will judge me for who I actually am rather than the word of people who bring issues across threads etc so it won't ruin my gransnet experience

I don't have any need to be unkind back thankfully

Overall this thread has been very interesting and I don't regret starting it...

I'm not sure I'm particularly obsessed with trans issues though lol

Nobody has been unkind, though.

It's not unkind to disagree with an opinion, surely?

You can think you understand your own emotions, think you are dealing with them, think you are “moving out to look at the emotions of others” and still be totally wrapped up in yourself and insensitive to others.

Thank you G. You evidence that so clearly in your posts. I couldn’t have put it better.

*Sometimes people have a absolutely delusional sense of who they are*-
That sort of comment on a thread like this sounds as if you’re referring to trans. Be kind.

Lathyrus

Your solution to bullying is to move the victim???‍♂️

I didn't suggest it Lathyrus It was suggested to VS as a solution to the problem in her child's school, so I just thought the same thing should be suggested to Mollygo

MissAdventure

Nobody has been unkind, though.

It's not unkind to disagree with an opinion, surely?

No nothing to do with that MissA

I'm not a narcissist that has to be right in all things

People would probably actually be suprised at how much I have taken from trans discussions lol

No I wasn’t actually thinking of trans when I posted that. I was thinking of people I’ve known, perhaps one particular Head I worked for, who would say “I’m a people person” and who truly believed that she empathised with people and understood them.

Another colleague once said to me that she had never known anybody with a self image that was so far from the reality of other peoples experiences when having to deal with her.

Generally speaking I would say that the more satisfied people are with themselves the less likely it is that other people experience them in the way they see themselves, if you know what I mean.

Actually Mollygo I’m L not G?

Glorianny

Lathyrus

Your solution to bullying is to move the victim???‍♂️

I didn't suggest it Lathyrus It was suggested to VS as a solution to the problem in her child's school, so I just thought the same thing should be suggested to Mollygo

So you would suggest it as a solution?

Or do you mean you were just having a dig at Mollygo?

MissAdventure

Nobody has been unkind, though.

It's not unkind to disagree with an opinion, surely?

Of course it isn't.
However it is unkind to criticise someone personally simply because they don't agree with you.

I suppose that brings us full circle again, in a way.