Transphobic Bullying

Galaxy said -
They are currently fighting to retain single sex provision.

Glorianny then said -
I don't think this is under threat.

Glorianny are you really unaware that almost all single-sex provision for women is now trans-inclusive so is open to any male person who chooses to claim to be a woman?
It has therefore ceased to be single-sex.

Are there a few transactivists who behave badly? Undoubtedly.
Hurray! At last! An admission that some trans/transactivists behave badly.

Is that a reason to condemn them all or to be afraid of them all, or to post awful things about them. Of course it isn't.

Which is why I don’t, but you suggest it happens in the hope that people will believe your perception instead of the truth.

So you are in fact saying all are responsible for the actions of a few.
Who are the you you mention? Where have you seen anyone except yourself saying this?

A whole list of incorrect statements follows that only you Glorianny are saying. I don’t understand why.
If you truly do believe all the things you posted in that list I’m concerned for your mental health.

Better IMO to say things like
Some TW claim and use their TW status to cheat, harm or upset females which reflects badly on those trans who do not.
Most TW do not do that and suffer from the actions of the few who do.

The sun??

It is pouring here. We are going out in an hour - to the cinema - and unless we can park right outside the door are going to get drenched. If I hadn't booked the tickets I'd be staying indoors.

FarNorth

Galaxy said -
They are currently fighting to retain single sex provision.

Glorianny then said -
I don't think this is under threat.

Glorianny are you really unaware that almost all single-sex provision for women is now trans-inclusive so is open to any male person who chooses to claim to be a woman?
It has therefore ceased to be single-sex.

This is why Stonewall and its adherents are so determined to force through their mantra that TWAW. Single sex provision therefore includes men who say they are women, so effectively ceases to exist.

This is why people like me are determined to oppose it at all costs. I was one of the more moderate ones, who was ok with 'genuine' transwomen in toilets or cubicle style changing rooms, but the militants have changed my position on that, for obvious reasons, which is a shame for the people I keep mentioning, who just wanted to be left alone, but now have 'allies' with their own agendas 'speaking for them'.

Terrible attempt at a thumbs up

Definitely shining here

That looks nice. Its pouring here. And I havent covered the garden seats

VioletSky

Well, all I know is, if I can help it, I will never join one of these threads again

As an aside

I dunno what's up with gransnet lately, too many dark threads, even ones that come from positive places

But, you didn’t join this thread…..you started it. ?

You must have known that it would cause debate about trans issues, from previous threads.

You presumably wanted that, as no one, in the history of forums, ever started a thread, about anything, hoping it’s ignored lol

All we know sp about each other, on GN, is what’s posted. None of it is personal, it’s just discussion, and maybe disagreement.

I don’t understand your problem…

Glorianny

Rosie51

Glorianny

Galaxy

They are currently fighting to retain single sex provision.

I don't think this is under threat. I agree it hasn't been properly administered in the past, but I don't think this is the fault of transpeople. It's a bit like blaming all drivers because some idiots ignore speed limits. The law is there and most respect it. If someone advocates no speed limits are all drivers complicit?

Well it is the fault of those transpeople that have gone into the single sex spaces. Those ones that haven't cared that women have absented themselves from groups and activities because, for whatever reason, they needed them to be truly single sex. Just because those in charge of administering the single sex space haven't fulfilled their obligation doesn't excuse anybody from failing to keep the rules. If I leave a window open when I go out, it will invalidate my insurance but doesn't excuse the burglar who enters and steals my property.

So you are in fact saying all are responsible for the actions of a few.
By that judgement
All men are paedophiles because a few are
All men are rapists because a few are
All drivers break speed limits because a few do
All women are child murderers because a few are.
It's obviously all nonsense
Are there a few transactivists who behave badly? Undoubtedly. Is that a reason to condemn them all or to be afraid of them all, or to post awful things about them. Of course it isn't.
It's as illogical as any of the above statements.
But then most prejudice and discrimination is.

Given I haven't said all are responsible for the few or any of the pathetic statements you've just listed I do worry about your ability to understand anything I post. I haven't condemned them all, I've condemned those transwomen who by their selfish actions have caused extreme distress and exclusion to women.
You said I don't think this is under threat. I agree it hasn't been properly administered in the past, but I don't think this is the fault of transpeople. to which I reply that the transwomen who have gone into single sex spaces must own their responsibility for breaching the rules. Just because you can doesn't mean you should and that it hasn't been regulated efficiently doesn't absolve anyone from having transgressed the rules. By your reckoning the speeding driver who isn't caught has no responsibility for having speeded.
I do remember in your previous incarnation you not caring that Muslim women were excluded from female only swimming sessions because a transwoman decided they wanted to attend the women only session, when they could attend any of the mixed sex sessions. That to me shows absolute prejudice.

Diamondlily

"You must have known it would cause debate about trans issues from previous threads"

Why would I expect that people would take this thread away from its purpose?

Sadly many threads on gransnet are being taken from their original purpose lately yes, but is it expected? No.

If it becomes expected then soon there won't be much here for anyone to comment on.

FarNorth

Galaxy said -
They are currently fighting to retain single sex provision.

Glorianny then said -
I don't think this is under threat.

Glorianny are you really unaware that almost all single-sex provision for women is now trans-inclusive so is open to any male person who chooses to claim to be a woman?
It has therefore ceased to be single-sex.

Far North Are you unaware that the law clearly states that if any women would not use a service or facility for women if transwomen were present even those with a gender certificate can be banned?
So how has anything which really matters ceased to be single sex?

How are you getting on with thinking about your logical conclusion VioletSky?

Oh Oh. Just as it was getting friendly?.

When the thread went 'off purpose' (if the purpose was genuinely to discuss school bullying) it was because thinly disguised digs at other posters were questioned, leading to denial and further examples being given, because when people explained what they thought it was ignored, and because you were taking the moral high ground and casting others as guilty of posting personal comments when you were doing exactly that.

Do we really need to go through all that again?

Yes, I am aware of that Glorianny. It almost never happens.

VS you posted a thread that mentioned transphobic bullying, knowing, from other threads that mention trans, that not all posters have the same views as you and would undoubtedly say so.
You’ve been on GN long enough to know that posts get derailed, even on occasions, contributing to the derailment yourself.
You asked,
Why would I expect that people would take this thread away from its purpose

I don’t believe you’re that naive.

Why would I expect that people would take this thread away from its purpose?

Sadly many threads on gransnet are being taken from their original purpose lately yes, but is it expected? No.

What was its purpose? Do you think threads should start with a list of rules that posters must adhere to if they wish to post a comment? You asked what people's thoughts were, but were they not to mention their thoughts that all bullying is bad, and victims of any bullying can suffer, it doesn't matter what 'difference' real or imagined is used? Are you unaware young people have committed suicide as the result of bullying totally unrelated to trans issues?
Threads wander, one post leads to another. I really don't think many threads stay focussed on one single premise.

But Doodledog shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that racial bullying had its roots in the stories told about black people. That religious persecution has its roots in the stories told about different religions. You only have to look at the stories told about Jews in the 1930s to understand the growth of anti-semitism.. So isn't it logical to draw the conclusion that the posts made about transwomen waving penises, invading women's spaces, violating women will lead to bullying and the use of trans related abuse in school and in the workplace. And that the biggest recipients of this abuse and those who will be bullied are girls who don't fit the accepted image of women (think Love Island) . In other words those constantly denigrating transpeople are causing far more harm to girls and women than any transwomen.

Mollygo

VS you posted a thread that mentioned transphobic bullying, knowing, from other threads that mention trans, that not all posters have the same views as you and would undoubtedly say so.
You’ve been on GN long enough to know that posts get derailed, even on occasions, contributing to the derailment yourself.
You asked,
Why would I expect that people would take this thread away from its purpose

I don’t believe you’re that naive.

OK Mollygo

Glorianny

But Doodledog shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that racial bullying had its roots in the stories told about black people. That religious persecution has its roots in the stories told about different religions. You only have to look at the stories told about Jews in the 1930s to understand the growth of anti-semitism.. So isn't it logical to draw the conclusion that the posts made about transwomen waving penises, invading women's spaces, violating women will lead to bullying and the use of trans related abuse in school and in the workplace. And that the biggest recipients of this abuse and those who will be bullied are girls who don't fit the accepted image of women (think Love Island) . In other words those constantly denigrating transpeople are causing far more harm to girls and women than any transwomen.

Exactly

Rosie51

^Why would I expect that people would take this thread away from its purpose?^

Sadly many threads on gransnet are being taken from their original purpose lately yes, but is it expected? No.

What was its purpose? Do you think threads should start with a list of rules that posters must adhere to if they wish to post a comment? You asked what people's thoughts were, but were they not to mention their thoughts that all bullying is bad, and victims of any bullying can suffer, it doesn't matter what 'difference' real or imagined is used? Are you unaware young people have committed suicide as the result of bullying totally unrelated to trans issues?
Threads wander, one post leads to another. I really don't think many threads stay focussed on one single premise.

There are NO trans people in the OP

So the thread was about how we discuss trans issues appropriately and responsibly

Since transohobic bullying has its roots in sexism, that should be a concern to all of us

This thread has just become another place to air people grievances against trans people though and that's why I've lost interest in it

I guess that proves my point really

Far North Are you unaware that the law clearly states that if any women would not use a service or facility for women if transwomen were present even those with a gender certificate can be banned?
So how has anything which really matters ceased to be single sex?

Are you unaware that many of our institutions and businesses are indoctrinated by their membership of Stonewall schemes? Stonewall have said they want to eliminate single sex spaces, they pressure encourage organisations to go 'beyond' the law and make everywhere inclusive of self-identified people. The EA gives protection to gender reassignment, Stonewall tell organisations the protected quality is gender identification.
Why do you think even the NHS insisted that a woman raped on a women's ward couldn't have been because 'no men were on the ward'? A year later they admit they had admitted a transwoman complete with working penis onto that ward. A victim gaslit for a year because authorities are gutless and terrified of being labelled transphobic.

Last post to glorianny

Well there we go

There are literally 17 other threads for the discussion of trans issues and airing grievances

But this thread was about a different aspect.

It's very interesting to me why people would do that, why they need 18 threads to be about their agenda.

And if they can't do something as relatively simple as not making a thread about them, their agenda, their wants, their interests.... what that actually means about them?

Because to me, and I'm just being honest, it comes across as selfish and self interested and as hard as it is, when that's been pointed out to me in the past I've listened and worked on it. That's not the sort of person I want to be in life.

I’ve been waiting for Glorianny to bring race into the discussion ( slightly off topic wouldn’t you say VS?)
girls who don’t fit the accepted image of women
Please clarify that statement. I don’t watch Love Island so I’m not sure about which “accepted image” you mean.

Who are these people who are constantly denigrating trans (please clarify that statement too).
Posters on GN comment on the bad behaviour of the few and someone-I think it was Glorianny posted earlier saying it does occur.
They don’t and never have denigrated trans people en masse.
Looking at it the other way, are you saying that because not all transwomen are harmful, we should ignore the activities of those who are?

Rosie51

^Far North Are you unaware that the law clearly states that if any women would not use a service or facility for women if transwomen were present even those with a gender certificate can be banned?^
So how has anything which really matters ceased to be single sex?

Are you unaware that many of our institutions and businesses are indoctrinated by their membership of Stonewall schemes? Stonewall have said they want to eliminate single sex spaces, they pressure encourage organisations to go 'beyond' the law and make everywhere inclusive of self-identified people. The EA gives protection to gender reassignment, Stonewall tell organisations the protected quality is gender identification.
Why do you think even the NHS insisted that a woman raped on a women's ward couldn't have been because 'no men were on the ward'? A year later they admit they had admitted a transwoman complete with working penis onto that ward. A victim gaslit for a year because authorities are gutless and terrified of being labelled transphobic.

And there you have a perfect example of the stories which feed into bullying.
Stonewall is not an organisation with any legal basis standing or even influence. The law remains what it is.
Will there be mistakes? Of course there will it's very new territory.
But only the prejudiced or conspiracy theorists will see deliberate actions by transpeople. Or spread the idea that any group which forms less than 1% of the population could in some way dominate a group which is 50%.

And every statement made like this feeds into transphobic bullying.

VioletSky

Glorianny

But Doodledog shouldn't it be obvious to everyone that racial bullying had its roots in the stories told about black people. That religious persecution has its roots in the stories told about different religions. You only have to look at the stories told about Jews in the 1930s to understand the growth of anti-semitism.. So isn't it logical to draw the conclusion that the posts made about transwomen waving penises, invading women's spaces, violating women will lead to bullying and the use of trans related abuse in school and in the workplace. And that the biggest recipients of this abuse and those who will be bullied are girls who don't fit the accepted image of women (think Love Island) . In other words those constantly denigrating transpeople are causing far more harm to girls and women than any transwomen.

Exactly

Are you saying that we shouldn’t tell of incidents where transwomen exhibit their penises to threaten women.
That we shouldn’t be told of incidences where transwomen rape other women.
That we shouldn’t talk about incidences where we have felt unable to use women’s facilities because we felt threatened by the way transwomen were behaving.

We should keep quiet about all these things that are happen to women ?