4 day week for schools?

Dreadful idea both for the children and the poor parents trying to work and worry about the kids at the same time look how children fell behind in the pandemic how many children fell off the radar
If the schools can’t heat their premises how can the parents ?

Elizabeth27

I think families are struggling enough without an extra day of childcare for working parents.

When it gets colder it would benefit children of poorer families to have extra time at school where there is heating and hot food that may not be available at home.

I agree.

growstuff

PS. Most schools are now academies, so pay their own energy bills - not the councils.

Not here, so I will try to find out if this is a proposal for English schools only.

Will teachers' salaries be reduced by one-fifth too?
Dinner ladies?
Admin staff?

Are public schools going to have a 4 day week, too. Or is this only an idea for those who can’t afford to pay for a private education?

Daisymae

Apparently according to an article in the Times, there's a campaign for schools to consider a 4 day week to help with financial difficulties. Schools are struggling financially in the current climate but surely children have fallen behind enough? I don't expect that private sector schools have any such plans. How is this allowed to happen?

Yes, there was a campaign
There was a petition to Parliament in January 2022 which was rejected.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/606773

Apologies for the link!

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

It is not a proposal by the Government:

The Government issued a response on April 21st 2022; “The government has no plans to require schools to make Friday part of the weekend. Regular attendance at school is vital for children’s education, well-being and long-term development ….”

Normandygirl

Primary schools here in France have always been 4 days a week, Wednesday a day off. The hours are longer though 8 am until 4-30 or 5pm. Working parents usually take Wednesday off and a lot of government offices are closed on a Wednesday to allow time off for parents. It all seems to work well.

But they still have the same number of hours in the classroom and society has adjusted to children not going to school on Wednesdays.

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

They will possibly be expected to carry on, but teaching remotely, as they did for much of lockdown. They will still have assessments to do.

Callistemon21

It is not a proposal by the Government:

The Government issued a response on April 21st 2022; “The government has no plans to require schools to make Friday part of the weekend. Regular attendance at school is vital for children’s education, well-being and long-term development ….”

Is that Wales or England?

So the government can put all the responsibility on schools and teachers - and blame them, while not giving them the money to pay for their energy bills.

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

Teacher Unions will never accept a 4 day week with salary cut to size! there is a massive shortage now, especially in some subjects- that is the very last thing the profession needs.

When you say 'public schools' MayBe70, you mean 'Public Schools' and other private schools. Oh no they won't- the parents will not put up with it. And again, those kids will be taught 100% (as my grand-children in great private schools) as they have been throughout the pandemic, and again, have their advantage over other kids get even bigger- widening that massive divide alreay present.

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

It's nothing to do with losing salary you need 5 days to fit the demands of the national curriculum in.
PE lessons were getting cut when I worked because of the time it took the children to get changed.
Of course, Academies are businesses who ever thought they weren't. They hire their economics advisors etc. to get the best out of the system. That is not to say some Academies are not brilliant.
They vary just like state schools. Some even have a choice of their intake so their results are bound to be better than a State school with a take-all catchment.
What about parents who rely on the school to teach their children and give them breakfast and lunch? Some parents do not have the time, energy, or ability to teach their children.
The long school holidays are showing this at the moment.
Why do people always have to mention pay or holidays in the context of teachers? They should give it a try for a term and see what they think then.

growstuff

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

They will possibly be expected to carry on, but teaching remotely, as they did for much of lockdown. They will still have assessments to do.

Schools were still open even then and parents were at home due to lockdown now many are back at work
Even thinking that schools can go on a three or four day week is a very short sighted option

Lathyrus

It will cut running costs, but the biggest saving will in teachers and other staff employed for four days in stead of five.

Academies tore up National conditions of their employment ages ago.

Management wil, of course, be needed to be employed on full time contracts.

Admin HR management yes they will all be vital (?)but rank and file classroom teachers … they’ll have even larger classes but still,be subjected to target setting reporting etc etc and get the blame for this initiative!

There is a mass exodus out of teaching. If the teachers conditions are worse, it will only increase even more. I've just been talking to a girl who is only in her 2nd year of teaching. Leaving already.

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

What ? You can’t just reduce someone’s salary. You can bet your life they would be fully employed 5 days a week.

They will just leave, or not join- and the kids will always pay the ultimate price and the gap get wider still.

rosie1959

growstuff

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

They will possibly be expected to carry on, but teaching remotely, as they did for much of lockdown. They will still have assessments to do.

Schools were still open even then and parents were at home due to lockdown now many are back at work
Even thinking that schools can go on a three or four day week is a very short sighted option

I know it's a short-sighted option, but what are schools to do if they can't pay their energy bills?

It's just scaremongering the government wouldn't allow it to happen.

Maudi

It's just scaremongering the government wouldn't allow it to happen.

How are they going to stop it?

Then Growstuff if they can’t pay the Government will have to pick up the bill. The energy companies are highly unlikely to cut them off
Schools could help by turning the heating down our local primary is like an oven
In the long term the powers that be should think of installing solar panels the one thing that schools do have is a lot of roof space

Daisymae

Apparently according to an article in the Times, there's a campaign for schools to consider a 4 day week to help with financial difficulties. Schools are struggling financially in the current climate but surely children have fallen behind enough? I don't expect that private sector schools have any such plans. How is this allowed to happen?

Falling behind what? Some Gove-inspired edict?

In my opinion children spend far too long in school. - indeed so.

There are so many aspects to be considered. .....

1. Education - children here get more than enough school time. We are obsessed with children stuffing their heads full of facts and missing the real treasures of being a child - imagination, ingenuity. This fact-stuffing leaves so many young people disillusioned with school, and they drop off the end of the system demotivated and lacking in self-worth. Get rid of the blessed national curriculum and let teachers use their professional skills to do right by each child, rather than ticking boxes.

2. Child care - unless workplaces also change their hours, then many working parents will have to find child care places, which in turn will have increased their fees to pass on the increase in their fuel bills.

3. Cost - ALL schools pay their own heating bills, not just academies. I am governor at a non-academy (so-called maintained) primary school and this will hit hard on our budgets. Our income comes from a per capita payment, with some extras for disadvantaged children, sports premium etc. We finish up with a pot of money which we manage and have to balance the books, paying for everything: staff salaries, cleaning, heating, maintenance, buildings etc. We try to set sensible budgets and financial projections - these will be out of kilter if there is no help for school heating and lighting bills forthcoming from the government.

As someone above pointed out, the concept of academies and academy trusts being not for profit is a huge joke. They top slice the per capita income (which is meant for the children's education and in the case of academies comes from central government) to pay their chief execs (who are just business people and not necessarily educationalists) and the legal guys who are needed to set the trusts up. It is a farce and takes money away from where it is needed. These business people prowl around like vultures seeing if they can absorb more schools into their MAT (multi academy trust) and increase their incomes. It is a sick system and makes my blood boil.

Lucca

rosie1959

I don't suppose school staff will be too happy about loosing a fifth of their salary can hardly be paid full time rates for a four day week.

What ? You can’t just reduce someone’s salary. You can bet your life they would be fully employed 5 days a week.

Well you can actually.meant teachers in Academies are now employed outside the conditions of the Book. (I can’t remember what the colour was). They are on temporary contracts and those can be renegotiated. Even permanent contracts can be brought to an end or altered.

As I was told once “To resist change in your contract is to invite redundancy.”

This is the obvious place to make huge savings. Primary schools have been doing for years by employing classroom assistants to take classes. In the Early Years the adult is quite often an assistant overseen by a teacher in an older class.
The over-riding rationale being that the first classes only play for much of the time.

As for the mass exodus of teachers, it will simply open the gates to employing more unqualified staff.

Head in my hands??

rosie1959

Then Growstuff if they can’t pay the Government will have to pick up the bill. The energy companies are highly unlikely to cut them off
Schools could help by turning the heating down our local primary is like an oven
In the long term the powers that be should think of installing solar panels the one thing that schools do have is a lot of roof space

Yes, the government will have to pick up the bill, but first schools will be expected to spend any earmarked savings (if they have any after paying for Covid measures), increase class sizes, stop teaching subjects without a big option take up, make teaching assistants redundant, so special needs pupils don't get the help they need, use more unqualified teachers, etc etc.

Luckygirl Some academy chains also spend some of their money on so-called curriculum plans, which are sometimes profit-making companies registered under a different name, but owned by the same people as those running the academies. Academies aren't allowed to make a profit, but their suppliers are. It's a disgraceful sham.