King Charles III

Varian why do millions search for their"roots" if it doesn't matter ? Of course it does ,we all want somewhere we belong .

Yes, we do but I think what we're trying to clarify is what is nationality? Who can claim to be, for example Scottish, English, Welsh? Is it ancestry, is it place of birth or is it heritage? Most of us and our families are mixtures over generations. And does it matter?
Boundaries are artificial concepts anyway.

Its not racist in any way
No-one has mentioned racism, have they? If so, I missed it.

Lexisgranny

I have been extremely moved today watching the warm and sympathetic reception given by the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland to their Majesties and in Scotland to the other family members in the last few days. Particularly in Scotland they must have been comforted by the expressions of high esteem in which the late Queen was held and the number of times she was described as “one of theirs”.

Yes, it was all very moving Lexisgranny.

Scotland rose to the occasion magnificently.

If you paid me a million pounds a day I would not have his job!

Callistemon21

^Varian why do millions search for their"roots" if it doesn't matter ? Of course it does ,we all want somewhere we belong^ .

Yes, we do but I think what we're trying to clarify is what is nationality? Who can claim to be, for example Scottish, English, Welsh? Is it ancestry, is it place of birth or is it heritage? Most of us and our families are mixtures over generations. And does it matter?
Boundaries are artificial concepts anyway.

Its not racist in any way
No-one has mentioned racism, have they? If so, I missed it.

If anyone wants to start a thread about the nature of nationality, I'll join in enthusiastically.

In this thread, someone was adamant that the queen is half Scottish, because her mum was Scottish. Her mum was not Scottish. If descent from Scottish nobility makes you Scottish, then the Royal Family are all Scottish, aren't they? They are also all German. And Dutch. And French. And Spanish. Where do we draw the line?

On many occasions, in many threads, I have drawn the distinction between how a person can be Scottish if they feel they want to live here, contribute to the country and "feel" Scottish, compared with the often-cited approach to bring English, which is "where were you born?".

I am absolutely disgusted at the oblique suggestions of some malign attitude to ethnicity and I'm prepared for the continuing imagined allegations that are probably about to be fired at me. However I'm sure that most right minded GN posters will see them for what they are. Pathetic attempts to have a go at me for not toeing the line, or the fevered imaginings of someone having difficulty understanding other people's posts.

Callistemon21

^Varian why do millions search for their"roots" if it doesn't matter ? Of course it does ,we all want somewhere we belong^ .

Yes, we do but I think what we're trying to clarify is what is nationality? Who can claim to be, for example Scottish, English, Welsh? Is it ancestry, is it place of birth or is it heritage? Most of us and our families are mixtures over generations. And does it matter?
Boundaries are artificial concepts anyway.

Its not racist in any way
No-one has mentioned racism, have they? If so, I missed it.

The issue was not the clarification of nationality Callistemon. What Volver seemed to be arguing was that she had the right to decide on the Queen Mother's ethnicity. The use of ethnicity is always a contentious one. However, Volver chose to bring it into the discussion.

We all know that when the far-right seeks to "other" some British Citizens they talk about the "ethnically British". There is no such thing. It is used to say someone is "not in my group". Volver has been trying to downplay the Queen's and the Queen Mother's ties to Scotland purely for her political purposes, to say she is not in the truly "Scottish" group. She has tried to make out that they are not "ethnically Scottish".

Of course, she has an opinion on the Monarchy, Independence, etc., and no one would challenge her voicing those. However, I have an opinion on the truth and not twisting it to present someone as "other". Ethnicity is decided by ethnicity, not by a poster called Volver, posting on GN. Citizenship is decided by a country's government and not by a poster called Volver, posting on GN.

The attempt to downplay the Queen mother's ethnic ties to Scotland was, in my opinion, a nasty tool to use to back other arguments. Many people in both Scotland and England like the ties the Royal family has in both countries. The devaluing of the Queen Mother's ethnic ties with Scotland was, again in my opinion, an argument that devalues the actual points anyone wanting Independence might make.

No one is expected to agree with my views, but some things are facts not opinions and have a history I would not care to see repeated.

However,Volverchose to bring it into the discussion.

I did not. Another poster did.

I did not mention ethnicity either, you did.

If you are going to insult people, try to get your facts right. Hard as that might be for you.

Getting back to the subject of the thread.
From most of the comments on the various threads re the Queen's death, I get the impression that quite a few people are "Queenists" rather than monarchists. They liked and respected her rather than the institution of monarchy itself.
It could go either way with Charles who seems to have lots of support at the moment but I think that support stems from a feeling of respecting the Queen's memory. Once that has died down and Charles has to stand on his own merits, that support could well dwindle. HM was a hard act to follow and I'm not sure Charles has got what it takes to fill the role. Although his PR team will be in overdrive in the coming months, I think they will have to concentrate even more effort on the PoW and his family to combat any negative feelings around Charles and Camilla. William and Kate cannot afford to put a wrong foot in the next few years, most of the pressure will be on them unfortunately.

I agree with aonk and lets leave it as it is. No individual is perfect but King Charles 111 will perform well in the job he has been trained to do all his life. The politicians can get on with governing.

Charles has repeatedly said that he wants to be a more involved monarch than his mother, and there’s certainly evidence of him potentially overstepping his role while he was PoW. But the message that’s coming out about the Queen was that people liked her because she didn’t get involved and kept her distance from politics, at least publicly. So that could backfire horribly.

But the Palace PR machine will be hyper aware that this is make or break time for the monarchy - they’ll have to be on their best behaviour, especially William who’s had his fair share of rumours lately.

Oh dear this thread has become pointless and ruined by aggressiveness as so often is the case these days on GN. I think it's very sad that while most of us accept that the Queen loved Scotland and by the reaction to her death, Scotland loved her, amply demonstrated in their fantastic goodbye in all respects, amazingly set up inside four days, that there has to be a petty argument about what does or does not qualify anyone to be connected through birth to Scotland. Just childish and ridiculous.

I think Charles will make an excellent King. He has been wrongly accused of all sorts of things in the past and was treated very badly during his divorce, Diana was very manipulative. The press were very cruel to him in their reporting. I am looking forward to his Reign. The Queen was marvellous but we now have a new era.

Whichever aide piped up "You put 12th of September earlier Sir" needs sacking. It was obvious Charles was already tired and stressed and it's not like he could go back and do anything about his earlier mistake. I am sure none of the Queen's aides would have ever embarrassed her like that in front of the cameras. That's why she "never put a foot wrong" her advisors would have made sure she was guided all the way.

And look at that silly little table at the accession council. Who didn't spot that the table was too small and the inkwell and pens are meant to be at the top not between you and the documents? Did they do this deliberately to show him up? If that had been the late Queen, an aide would have got that sorted out even before she sat down at the table. No wonder some of his old assistants are getting the push!!

Sorry everyone, but I'm not putting up with this.

Scotland loved her There's 5.4 million people in Scotland. Around 200,000 or so turned out to line routes or walk past the coffin. That's 3% of the population. Extrapolating that to "Scotland loved her" is ridiculous.

Also, Project Unicorn has been ready for years, don't patronise the organisers by saying it was all set up in 4 days.

Now stop weaponizing the silly arguments about the nationality of members of the Royal family and just get on with mourning the poor old soul, if you want to.

a petty argument about what does or does not qualify anyone to be connected through birth to Scotland

Just a reminder that u was accused yesterday of being pro H and M (inaccurate) as I’m Scottish and want to leave Union. I am not Scottish nor do I leave there. Kind of looking forward to an acknowledgment of this mistake !!

Obviously u should be I

Well clearly Lucca you can just decide to be Scottish if it suits you today. I'd welcome you any time

Today I'm being Venezuelan.

Scotland loved her There's 5.4 million people in Scotland. Around 200,000 or so turned

To suggest that all 5.4 million turn out as proof of Scotland’s love and admiration for the Queen is pretty puerile.

As an indication of Scotland’s affection for our late Queen it was wonderful.

It obviously irks certain sections of the nationalist movement that there was such a display. Well done Scotland.

Weren't we informed that Kate was a cousin..many times removed, of the Monarch when she married into the firm.We were also told Meghan was a relation ,many times removed .? Seems like there are a lot more of them than you would believe .
I live in the area where Bruce had his home and where he died ,I must get back to my family tree..no doubt I and most of the folk who live here will have a drop of his DNA floating about in us .
I think it was Daisy who said it was "bordering on racism" to say auld Liz wasn't a Scot or the recently departed queen a half Scot .I know many new Scots from across the world who came and worked and contributed to this country ,I'm not sure just having a holiday home here qualifies ,or, nowadays ,moving up for free uni for their kids !!

Lucca

*a petty argument about what does or does not qualify anyone to be connected through birth to Scotland*

Just a reminder that u was accused yesterday of being pro H and M (inaccurate) as I’m Scottish and want to leave Union. I am not Scottish nor do I leave there. Kind of looking forward to an acknowledgment of this mistake !!

Leave should be live….I’m on a boat blame that for typos!

tickingbird

^Scotland loved her There's 5.4 million people in Scotland. Around 200,000 or so turned^

To suggest that all 5.4 million turn out as proof of Scotland’s love and admiration for the Queen is pretty puerile.

As an indication of Scotland’s affection for our late Queen it was wonderful.

It obviously irks certain sections of the nationalist movement that there was such a display. Well done Scotland.

To suggest that 200,000 people turning out to pay their respects, means that a whole country monolithically "loves" a person most of them have never met doesn't even meet the criterion for puerile.

Boy was he cross at the second "pen debacle"! And who can blame him? - surely the lackeys can get a proper pen that works and is to hand without risking everything falling on the floor.

Heads will roll!!!

I do feel sorry for him. He has the death of his mama to contend with, then what seems a ridiculously ambitious plan to deal with until the funeral, at 73 it isn’t easy, then he has the model of his mother - who apparently never put a foot wrong ( not true of course).

Both are dealing with the utter exhaustion they must be feeling in a different way. Charles has shown his irritation (he does get irritated at things in normal times I believe - no criticism - that’s his character - takes after his father) then Camilla who looks so tired and clearly switches off at times.

Roll on a couple of weeks when things begin to settle down - for all of us.

According to YouGov:
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/09/13/how-have-britons-reacted-queen-elizabeth-iis-death

Casdon, the voice of reason again

Interesting regional breakdown.

Whitewavemark2 and apparently he was very badly bullied at school, and that can leave people with anger issues. So bearing in mind they are already fairly elderly, grieving, tired, etc, so far I think they've both been doing as well as anyone could in their shoes.