How soon before the next step to privatising the state schools?

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

Isn't it funny that it comes up every time? It's almost like it's one of the actual real reasons, isn't it? Couldn't be, could it?

No. It's simply your opinion. What you are trying to say is that we must accept your opinion as "fact". It isn't a fact. It is something you expect others to believe because you want it to be true. You've persuaded no one; offered no evidence. But still you insist that others must be made to do what you want. Round and round you go.

Please desist from trying to say that when I express my strongly held opinions that I am insisting that others agree with me.

Do you not understand how discussions work? Are you so unsure of your opinions that you think anyone who disagrees with them is browbeating you?

Please, stop it. It's silly.

You want to close the fee-paying schools. And you want that happen on the basis of your opinion, with no evidence that supports it. And you just go on repeating yourself.

Is that a discussion?

One of which was a link to Murphy

Well yes,this time, on. this thread

But why get annoyed with me because I mentioned asking for an explanation from another source?

After all, as you said:
If you think I'm stupid enough to take one person's word as gospel truth on this subject then I feel quite insulted

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

Isn't it funny that it comes up every time? It's almost like it's one of the actual real reasons, isn't it? Couldn't be, could it?

No. It's simply your opinion. What you are trying to say is that we must accept your opinion as "fact". It isn't a fact. It is something you expect others to believe because you want it to be true. You've persuaded no one; offered no evidence. But still you insist that others must be made to do what you want. Round and round you go.

Please desist from trying to say that when I express my strongly held opinions that I am insisting that others agree with me.

Do you not understand how discussions work? Are you so unsure of your opinions that you think anyone who disagrees with them is browbeating you?

Please, stop it. It's silly.

Please desist from trying to say that when I express my strongly held opinions that I am insisting that others agree with me

No, you may not be doing that.

But constantly ridiculing other posters' opinions on so many threads does not advance your case on anything at all one jot.

There are ways to persuade other people to your way of thinking without antagonising them.

DaisyAnne

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

Isn't it funny that it comes up every time? It's almost like it's one of the actual real reasons, isn't it? Couldn't be, could it?

No. It's simply your opinion. What you are trying to say is that we must accept your opinion as "fact". It isn't a fact. It is something you expect others to believe because you want it to be true. You've persuaded no one; offered no evidence. But still you insist that others must be made to do what you want. Round and round you go.

Please desist from trying to say that when I express my strongly held opinions that I am insisting that others agree with me.

Do you not understand how discussions work? Are you so unsure of your opinions that you think anyone who disagrees with them is browbeating you?

Please, stop it. It's silly.

You want to close the fee-paying schools. And you want that happen on the basis of your opinion, with no evidence that supports it. And you just go on repeating yourself.

Is that a discussion?

Well in a discussion I expect people to listen to reason. And recognise evidence when it is given.

So I guess this isn't a discussion. ??

There are ways to persuade other people to your way of thinking without antagonising them.

Why do you think I am trying to persuade anyone Callistemon? Just putting forward my view, that's all. And if it antagonises anyone, well that's a pity.

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

Isn't it funny that it comes up every time? It's almost like it's one of the actual real reasons, isn't it? Couldn't be, could it?

No. It's simply your opinion. What you are trying to say is that we must accept your opinion as "fact". It isn't a fact. It is something you expect others to believe because you want it to be true. You've persuaded no one; offered no evidence. But still you insist that others must be made to do what you want. Round and round you go.

Please desist from trying to say that when I express my strongly held opinions that I am insisting that others agree with me.

Do you not understand how discussions work? Are you so unsure of your opinions that you think anyone who disagrees with them is browbeating you?

Please, stop it. It's silly.

You want to close the fee-paying schools. And you want that happen on the basis of your opinion, with no evidence that supports it. And you just go on repeating yourself.

Is that a discussion?

Well in a discussion I expect people to listen to reason. And recognise evidence when it is given.

So I guess this isn't a discussion. ??

So, if I missed it, what proof have you offered that this would make a difference.

I doubt you will come up with any and, at the chance of being completely wrong, I don't think you have so far.

And round and round you go.

Callistemon21

GagaJo

GrannyGravy13

I am yet to be convinced that the existence of fee paying schools prevents governments (of any colour) adequately funding state schools.

I'm guessing you understand the theory. But choose to disbelieve it.

To me, it's QED. Elite groups who don't need state education/healthcare etc don't care about the underfunding of them because they don't use them. Those in government who are mostly from those elite groups, even more so in the Conservatives, have little interest in funding the state. In fact, it forms part of their policy.

Are you saying that all Tory MPs send their children to independent schools?

I know that is not so.

No. But I'm betting it is a tiny minority of them that don't. Not that I can be bothered to look for the statistics on it.

Not for nothing is the Conservative party made up of a lot of millionaires.

DaisyAnne

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

DaisyAnne

volver

Isn't it funny that it comes up every time? It's almost like it's one of the actual real reasons, isn't it? Couldn't be, could it?

No. It's simply your opinion. What you are trying to say is that we must accept your opinion as "fact". It isn't a fact. It is something you expect others to believe because you want it to be true. You've persuaded no one; offered no evidence. But still you insist that others must be made to do what you want. Round and round you go.

Please desist from trying to say that when I express my strongly held opinions that I am insisting that others agree with me.

Do you not understand how discussions work? Are you so unsure of your opinions that you think anyone who disagrees with them is browbeating you?

Please, stop it. It's silly.

You want to close the fee-paying schools. And you want that happen on the basis of your opinion, with no evidence that supports it. And you just go on repeating yourself.

Is that a discussion?

Well in a discussion I expect people to listen to reason. And recognise evidence when it is given.

So I guess this isn't a discussion. ??

So, if I missed it, what proof have you offered that this would make a difference.

I doubt you will come up with any and, at the chance of being completely wrong, I don't think you have so far.

And round and round you go.

? whee....

If everyone had to use the state system, the rich and powerful would ensure that it was good for everyone.
Is that your opinion or a fact?

IMO
The rich and powerful might well be more interested in how NFF works but I don’t see them dipping their hands in their pockets to fund other people’s children even though they’re saving money on fees. They will have to find the 24 hour care their children get currently as boarders, or organise three meals a day and extra curricular activities that are currently included. I have visions of specially set up after school clubs to ensure ‘homework’ is done with support before the children come home.
If every school received the same per pupil funding, that wouldn’t make it fair. If you add in extras like pupil premium -that still wouldn’t make it fair. School premises are another example of ‘unfair’ that would be difficult to change, simply because of land.
Those who could afford it would make sure their children went to ‘the best’ state schools i.e. those in nice areas and would raise money to support anything extra they thought their child’s school needed, just as happens now.
But that’s only IMO.

An interesting and complex one Mollygo. But this is a complex issue.

Going by this thread, my money was not put to good use as our privately educated kiddie winks have after other paid positions now work in the family SME

I don’t see them dipping their hands in their pockets to fund other people’s children even though they’re saving money on fees.

No. Most of them probably aren't that kind of person at all. Not at all. IMO.

Mollygo

*If everyone had to use the state system, the rich and powerful would ensure that it was good for everyone.*
Is that your opinion or a fact?

IMO
The rich and powerful might well be more interested in how NFF works but I don’t see them dipping their hands in their pockets to fund other people’s children even though they’re saving money on fees. They will have to find the 24 hour care their children get currently as boarders, or organise three meals a day and extra curricular activities that are currently included. I have visions of specially set up after school clubs to ensure ‘homework’ is done with support before the children come home.
If every school received the same per pupil funding, that wouldn’t make it fair. If you add in extras like pupil premium -that still wouldn’t make it fair. School premises are another example of ‘unfair’ that would be difficult to change, simply because of land.
Those who could afford it would make sure their children went to ‘the best’ state schools i.e. those in nice areas and would raise money to support anything extra they thought their child’s school needed, just as happens now.
But that’s only IMO.

In all sincerity MollyGo. Can't you see how this looks?

Better off people won't want to contribute to us having a more equal society.

They'll have to make sure someone is looking after their children 24 hours a day and feeding them 3 meals a day. (Isn't that the minimum of what all parents sign up for?)

They'd have to pay for extra-curricular activities. (OK then. The clue is in the title - extra curricular. Not core educational.)

What would they do with all the lovely playing field or premises? (Sell them off, like other schools have done. Or open them to the general population. Imagine, ordinary pupils in the hallowed grounds or portals.)

Those who could afford it would still bend or break the rules to get unfair advantage for their children. (I'd best not comment about that.)

volvet I respect you as a poster, but that was just full of bullshit, bollocks and prejudice…

GrannyGravy13

volvet I respect you as a poster, but that was just full of bullshit, bollocks and prejudice…

not the 'B' word I was thinking about.

If that's your interpretation of respect I'm glad you don't look down on me.

I have no time for those who think paying for a better education is some kind of human right and I will never change my mind. Irrespective of anyone who thinks I'm a communist or an extremist. They're just going to have to think that and I can't do anything about that.

I don't think you are extreme volver

GrannyGravy13

volvet I respect you as a poster, but that was just full of bullshit, bollocks and prejudice…

I don't think it was full of bullshit, bollox or prejudice.

Some people find it difficult to accept.

In all sincerity Volver, do you mean you don’t think that’s what would happen? Do you see well off people handing out their earnings to benefit those worse off in any situations? If you are better off than some people, do you do that? Do you do less for your family in order to support those who are less well off.
People want to do the best they can for their families. Are you saying you don’t?

They'll have to make sure someone is looking after their children 24 hours a day and feeding them 3 meals a day. (Isn't that the minimum of what all parents sign up for?)
Well it could be. It is for me, how about you? Some parents, either because they can’t afford be stay at home parents, or because they work unsociable hours, or because they choose to send their children to private schools, pay other people to do some of that.
Re the premises.
Don’t you think they’d keep them as schools or turn them into state schools with boarding facilities like those that already exist. Guess who’d have the best chance of getting in there.

Perhaps I am just totally over the blame game

You do not have to be poor to be empathetic or to have a social conscience

volver

If that's your interpretation of respect I'm glad you don't look down on me.

I have no time for those who think paying for a better education is some kind of human right and I will never change my mind. Irrespective of anyone who thinks I'm a communist or an extremist. They're just going to have to think that and I can't do anything about that.

Many of them probably don't have time for you either. So what? Where does that get you? Even so most people want the best state education we can provide, if only for purely selfish purposes.

No one thinks you are a communist but the views you express are verging on the view that would need communism to bring them about. It is very extreme to force people to only use state anything, including schools.

However, this thread is not about you although you seem to make to want it so. It is about what the government is doing to state education regardless of the very small number who don't use it.

DaisyAnne. I'm so fed up of the way you post. So fed up.

I'm away to my bed.

If everyone had to use the state system, the rich and powerful would ensure that it was good for everyone.
Is that your opinion or a fact?

It's my opinion, based on what I think is a fact - namely that everyone wants the best for their children, and if the children of the powerful used state schools they would ensure that they were kept up to scratch. Why wouldn't they?

GrannyGravy13

Perhaps I am just totally over the blame game

You do not have to be poor to be empathetic or to have a social conscience

I don't disagree. Saying that would be as facile as saying that so-called 'champagne socialists' are hypocrites. You can want a better system and still enjoy the good things in life while waiting for it to happen.

I don't blame parents who are faced with a poor state school for choosing a private one, any more than I blame people faced with serious health issues for going private. In fact, getting the best for our children is even more of an instinct than protecting our own health.

I do disagree that having a two-tier system comes without detriment to those at the raggy end though. This is why I would get rid of it - not out of envy or because I'm a communist (I'm nothing of the kind), but because of the reasons I've already given.

I don’t disagree that a two tier system comes without detriment to those at the bottom end, in any area, but with schools, outwith private schools, there is already a two tier system.

Do you think making state schools the only choice would mean those at the top would suddenly be interested in making all schools better?
Have you seen those ‘at the top’ who choose state schools now, do anything other than choose the ‘best’ state schools?
Have I missed seeing them lobby the government to do anything to improve the lot of schools in poorer areas?
It would be lovely to think that either ‘at the top group’ are so altruistic, and maybe they do talk about what’s right just as we do on here.
Who would deny there is a pressing need for more funding in state schools?
One example; teachers are getting a pay rise, but there’s no extra funding for schools to support that pay rise, so schools have to choose whether to cut down on support staff, equipment, curriculum experiences etc. That hits poorer schools harder in the same way that increased heating costs affect poorer people.