Mermaids - helping children & teenagers to deceive their parents

JaneJudge

My cousin is a transwoman VS, I'm quite capable of accepting people for who they are and respecting their own rights as adults whilst being concerned about safeguarding with respect to children.

I hope you are okay

Yes, the notion that those who want to aid and abet children to defy their parents and try to prevent their physical development before their mental development has caught up have the monopoly on tolerance or accepting others for who they are is yet another of the patronising viewpoints I was talking about.

I asked ages ago for a way of describing people who want the rights of transpeople to come before the rights of others, but nothing has been suggested. I don't think 'trans supporters' covers it, as I am a supporter of transpeople - just not for them to have the right to push women aside or to damage children. TRA has violent and therefore negative connotations, so that isn't suitable either. I don't want to cause offence, but It would be convenient to know what term to use - particularly as the term 'gender critical' is used for those who feel as I do.

I think the term 'transactivist' is fine to describe those who want their idea of transpeople's rights to come before the rights of others.
What Mermaids are doing to children, whether by doling out binders or just by encouraging them to believe they can really be the opposite sex, is damaging to those children.
And that is violence.

VS
These threads damage my mental health. I can't imagine how trans people must feel all the time the way society treats them.

I'm going to f* ** now.*

The inTIMidating actions of some TIM damage my mental health and the mental and even physical health of those affected by the inTIMidation, e.g. females obliged to share prison spaces with TIM.
Those trans who have no wish to be seen in that light are also inTIMidated by the actions of the few and the impact it has on how they are viewed.

Agreed, both of you.

Encouraging girls to damage their breasts is violence, and yes, the MH of women who are incarcerated with Trans Identifying Men must suffer immeasurably, and I can't imagine how they must feel. But they are only women, so they should just suck it up and make room for the poor men. Failure to do so is discriminatory and not kind.

And I thought child abuse was illegal..

I can’t believe that anyone who truly cared about children would align themselves with child abusers. It makes me weep for our youngsters that there are people amongst us who think that way. It doesn’t do my mental health any good, that’s for sure.

I know several people with children questioning their identity. All of them have been supportive in helping their child explore the subject and none of the YP has taken any steps to change their physiology before the age of 18. In fact, only one has embarked on a hormone regime and most of them, as adults, now identify as gay and seem all the happier for it.

SueDonim

I can’t believe that anyone who truly cared about children would align themselves with child abusers. It makes me weep for our youngsters that there are people amongst us who think that way.
It makes me sick to think that those who do align themselves with child abusers and encourage deceit by, and harm of young people by encouraging or excusing the abuse, will laud themselves by claiming to be supportive and caring.

Support the way you describe it is obviously in the best interests of the child, i.e. exploration of the subject and their feelings without embarking on potentially harmful drug or physical alteration whilst they are still YP.

These threads damage my mental health
Then do the wise thing and don’t take part in them violetsky

This reminds me of the much maligned Chinese tradition of binding feet totally deforming women whist convincing mothers that their child will only be beautiful and accepted with tiny feet
This chest binding is dreadful because to be successful it needs to be started at an early age an age before the child fully knows their mind and no organisation should go behind a parents guidance
I don’t know anything about that CEO but she sounds as if she should be fully investigated

VS had a valid point. Trans children are here and always have been, they are not going away any time soon! I fully recognize the danger of children having access to online websites filling their possibly already confused heads with details of how to self harm or take their own lives or indeed use a breast binder!! I am horrified thinking about it. Yes of course parents need to know what their children are accessing online, whether they have trans children or not. However we must not ignore the distress some children are enduring due to their thoughts regarding gender identity. Of course not all children who think they are trans will be! Such a difficult problem balancing the situation between acknowledging what a child is saying and not jumping the gun! Having said that I think we must all try and get our heads round the concept of transgender people. If one of our GC were in this position wouldn't we support them and their parents?

Here you are Bluebelle.

Susie Green, now CEO of Mermaids, tells why she took her 16-year old son to Thailand to have his genitals surgically removed because it couldn't be done in the UK until he was 18.

(The eligible age for this is now 18 in Thailand too.)

youtu.be/2ZiVPh12RQY

If one of our GC were in this position wouldn't we support them and their parents?

I would not support the idea of them actually being the opposite sex, just as I wouldn't support the idea that an anorexic child is fat.

People who have desisted or detransitioned say that one thing that delayed them from doing so was that they didn't want to feel foolish by having to tell everyone who had been on board with their 'trans identity'.

Perhaps it could be less difficult if they know they have someone who loves them and who isn't invested in them being the opposite sex from reality.

FarNorth I fully understand and appreciate what you say. I know how vulnerable some young people are I also know that some have made a shocking mistake. However take it from me those there are people who deserve our understanding and acceptance. Transgender issues are here , it's not all that long ago that homosexuality was not accepted and gay people are still at risk of attack, so the transgender issue has a very long way to go! I don't know if you have GC but if you have I am sure that if you were faced with a GC who was transgender you would change your view. If you didn't then you would be at risk of loosing that GC and their parents! I know very well how difficult it is to get our heads round a transgender person , but quite simply
WE MUST. Of course you wouldn't support the idea that an anorexic child is fat , forgive me but that is a ridiculous comparison!

Both those things are untrue.

An anorexic child is not fat and is not helped by people agreeing that they are.

A 'trans' child is not the opposite sex from the one they were born and is not helped by people agreeing that they are.

Why is 'trans' the one thing where we absolutely must go along with everything a child says?

Obviously I wouldn't simply contradict my GC, if they were in this situation. I'd accept however they wanted to present themselves. The one fact is that no-one can change sex.

Doodledog

All transpeople do not think alike, so putting oneself into a transperson's shoes' means no more than 'putting oneself in a blonde person's shoes', or those of a lesbian or a Methodist.

Also many object to non-trans people speaking for them based on Stonewall training courses.

This is absolutely true and glad to see it said.
There is too much harmful nonsense spouted from such groups as Mermaids and Stonewall that should be rejected.

They are welcome to understanding and support, but NOT welcome to send out medical appliances to anonymous children without investigating why they are requesting these appliances, and assessing whether a binder is the right answer..

A doctor or nurse who prescribed and supplied a plaster leg cast to a child, without interviewing and examining them and diagnosing that the leg was indeed broken and in need of the treatment to aid healing, would be in breach of their professional calling.

Shelflife
Of course you wouldn't support the idea that an anorexic child is fat , forgive me but that is a ridiculous comparison.
Why is that ridiculous? Believe me, anorexics are certain they are fat. They believe that changing the way they look and the negative way they feel about themselves could be solved by losing more and more weight.
You know anorexics have problems and need support and help. Lying by agreeing that they are fat and that losing weight will solve their problems rather than supporting them to get the help they need is wrong.

In the same way as lying by agreeing that it’s possible for anyone to change sex and that physical or chemical treatment with potentially damaging after-effects will do that, instead of offering them support and accepting the way they want to dress or act is wrong.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202209/medium-434659-fdm9m7wxwaej3tu.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202209/medium-874668-fdm-b6xxwaip9q-.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202209/medium-737217-fdm-u89xwbkm9l0.jpg

If GPs refuse to prescribe hormone treatment to young teenagers, Mermaids offers to help them and their parents get that on prescriptions from abroad and to help them find a UK pharmacist willing to dispense the drugs from such a prescription.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1574504702099742739.html

In court recently, Mermaids representatives said "We don't give medical advice. We simply direct people to the NHS."

Horrendous isn't it FarNorth prescriptions issued for puberty blockers for patients these people have never seen in person? My GP who prescribed ongoing medication for me after thorough examination and tests, insists on periodic face to face medication reviews, and checkups. These children are being medicated (actually having their healthy endocrine systems interfered with) at a distance with no monitoring, and with the facilitation and encouragement of Mermaids.

Shelflife, what is making you think that people on here 'can't get our heads round' the fact that transpeople exist? Of course we do.

Speaking for myself, what I find upsetting is that there are those who think they have the right to speak on behalf of a disparate group of people as though they are one mass, and who see fit to over-rule parents who have expressly told a 14 year old child that they don't want her to bind her breasts. I don't know what that has to do with not accepting that trans children exist. I know they do, and I support those I come across by accepting them as they present. That does not mean that I believe that they are able to transmogrify into the opposite sex, which is simply not possible.

On the whole, I don't treat people differently based on gender, so it makes no difference to me how people perceive themselves. I use whatever name they use to introduce themselves, and only use pronouns when people aren't there, so am unlikely to 'misgender' anyone (with their knowledge, anyway). That doesn't mean that I am in favour of pressure groups with a vested interest in encouraging vulnerable young people to make decisions that can be very damaging. It is perfectly possible to be aware of the issues, supportive of people going through difficult experiences and also critical of groups such as Mermaids.

VioletSky

Yet again, you guys think that binders are more dangerous than:

Severe depression and anxiety
Home made binders
Self harming
Suicide risk

Why can't you just leave trans children alone. They aren't going to listen to you or your opinions and just say "oh, you are right, I'm all better now"

Stop trying to prevent children getting help and support for devastating gender dysphoria.

It's a far better alternative to what they may do to themselves without it.

Mind your business

Why cant the trans lobby leave children alone?

Children are too precious to be used as a political ideological experiment.

Adults, do what you want, it's a free country (well, just about).

Interestingly, I saw this posted a little while ago. It would seem Mermaids never used to think affirmation, binders, puberty blockers and cross sex hormones were the immediate 'go to' for children.

I think that Mermaids, like Stonewall, started out as a good thing, but as time went on they have become radicalised and are now a danger to the children they claim to want to help.

VioletSky, the safeguarding of children is the responsibility of professionals, parents and the general public. ‘mind your business “ directed at posters you see as gender critical and therefore wrong doesn’t take this important debate any further.

Some of us have trans gay lesbian grandchildren as well as friends. Dont assume anyone who doesn’t entirely agree with your views on these issues does so from bigoted, illinformed, or unkind intent

Farnorth said Obviously I wouldn't simply contradict my GC, if they were in this situation. I'd accept however they wanted to present themselves. The one fact is that no-one can change sex.

Exactly. A friend with a trans-daughter loves her as much as she did when she was her (my friend’s) son. She has helped her trans-dd explore the options over three or four years. The dd is now adult and can make her own decisions as to medical care. Friend uses female pronouns - the name was already one used for both boys and girls and wasn’t changed.

However, my friend knows that her daughter will always have XY chromosomes.

Doodledog

I think that Mermaids, like Stonewall, started out as a good thing, but as time went on they have become radicalised and are now a danger to the children they claim to want to help.

Perhaps the shift of viewpoint started when Susie Green got involved with Mermaids .

It's clear from her own account, posted earlier in this thread, that she and her husband couldn't cope with having a boy child who didn't fit male stereotypes.

"Get the child sorted to suit us" seemed to be her attitude.