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Is Liz Truss lying or just ignorant of her own policies?

(148 Posts)
vegansrock Fri 30-Sep-22 06:58:11

Apologies if this is being discussed elsewhere - I couldn’t find it, but think it deserved its own thread. On local radio she said
“Through the energy price guarantee, the maximum will be £2,500” (Radio Leeds)
and also said
“no family, no household will pay over £2,500” (CNN)
This is wrong and could lull some into a false state of security. This is just the average household use. The total bill is not capped, if you leave your heating on full blast day and night you will pay more than £2,500. If you consume less, you will pay less. Is she deliberately misleading or does she not understand her own policies? Why did no sharp interviewer pull her up on this one?

DaisyAnne Fri 30-Sep-22 19:04:03

Dickens

DaisyAnne

Why would I actually care how you react? I have no control over you, nor should you believe you should have any over me. I came off GN, went out and came back to you still stirring the pot. Why?

"Stirring the pot" is not what I do. So I'll acknowledge your slightly unpleasant post, but refrain from further comment on what you have said.

It may not "be what you do" but it's exactly what you did. Did UG ask for all this?

Dickens Fri 30-Sep-22 19:23:00

Whitewavemark2

With regards to the price cap - it is certainly ignorance.

The worrying thing is the fact that she was nearly the author of a complete collapse of our pensions yesterday - saved by the BoE. To say that it is the fault of Putin and world economy is a lie.

Unfortunately for her, she wasn't also able to include the Labour party in the blame-game.

I don't think we're out of the woods yet anyway with regard to pensions...

varian Fri 30-Sep-22 19:47:05

I think that the puppeteers who control the robotic Truss have made a programming error.

Urmstongran Fri 30-Sep-22 23:19:24

Did UG ask for all this?

Eh?
You’ve lost me DaisyAnne. I’ve no idea what this means.

paddyann54 Fri 30-Sep-22 23:36:50

according to Monbiot she's being controlled by a group who are being controlled by Oligarchs and big corporations.
Sounds about right ,she certainly hasn't been able to answer any questions abot anything that I've heard

MaizieD Sat 01-Oct-22 00:08:38

This is where all Truss and Kwarteng's policy is coming from. Read and be very afraid. I've copy pasted most of it from the article to try to ensure that people read it. I've formatted my intro because the article is too long to format. There is a bit more. Link at end

When the UK’s new chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, announced a raft of tax cuts for high earners last week in his mini-budget, the response from the markets was damning. The pound fell to its lowest level against the dollar since decimalisation, and the cost of government borrowing jumped sharply.
But the announcements were cheered on by a group of secretive think tanks closely connected to Liz Truss and her advisers. After years of lobbying, a Conservative government had finally adopted their proposals to scrap the top rate of income tax, remove the cap on bankers’ bonuses, shelve a planned rise in corporation tax, and pledge a fresh crackdown on unions.
The Adam Smith Institute, where Truss’s political secretary Sophie Jarvis was head of government affairs, said the plans were “a welcome first step to getting the British economy back on track”.
The mood was particularly buoyant at the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA), whose director general Mark Littlewood greeted the announcement by claiming: “This isn’t a trickle-down budget – it’s a boost-up budget.”

Truss and Kwarteng have faced accusations that their proposals are inspired by ‘trickle-down economics’, a term for a set of policies adopted by the former US president Ronald Reagan that cut taxes for the richest in the belief that wealth would then filter down to the poorest. The theory has been discredited by both the International Monetary Fund and Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.
None of the think tanks discloses its funders, but the IEA has received donations from BP and ExxonMobil and, along with the Adam Smith Institute and the Centre for Policy Studies, the tobacco industry. The IEA and the Adam Smith Institute have also received millions of dollars from US funders of climate denial.
Later, speaking at a post-budget briefing, Littlewood was asked by journalists if he was anxious about his policies being put to the test.
“We don't write policy ideas just for them to sit on the shelf – we write them in the hope that one day they're enacted,” he said. But he also admitted that: “If it turns out that these don’t work, I think the IEA has got a lot of hard thinking to do.”
Tim Montgomerie, a former adviser to Boris Johnson, wrote on Twitter that the budget was a “massive moment for the IEA”. “They’ve been advocating these policies for years,” he said. “*They incubated Truss and Kwarteng during their early years as MPs. Britain is now their laboratory.”*
Truss is particularly close to the IEA, having founded its parliamentary wing FREER in 2011 and hired its former communications director Ruth Porter to run her campaign, later rewarding her by making her deputy chief of staff.
The Taxpayers’ Alliance, which once shared a Westminster office with the IEA, predicted that the budget would boost economic output by £99bn over the next ten years and said it was the “most taxpayer-friendly budget in recent memory.”
The economic projections were produced in collaboration with another think tank, Europe Economics. Andrew Lilco, the organisation’s executive director, was later asked to respond to criticism that the budget would benefit the rich more than the poor in an interview on Sky News.
I have no interest in equality. I think it’s an incorrect policy objective. I don’t think it’s morally or economically sound as a policy objective,” he said.
The Centre for Policy Studies, a think tank co-founded by former Conservative PM Margaret Thatcher, also claimed credit for many of the policies announced in Kwarteng’s budget.
Tom Clougherty, its ‘head of tax’, said on the IEA’s podcast earlier this week that: “I think that frankly both the overall message and the specific announcements contained within [the mini-budget] are fantastic. Exactly what we would have hoped for and what people like us have been calling for for a long time.”

www.opendemocracy.net/en/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-mini-budget-think-tanks/?utm_source=oD%20Daily%20SEGMENT&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=%E2%80%98Fantastic%E2%80%99%3A%20What%20Truss%E2%80%99s%20allies%20said%20about%20budget%20that%20crashed%20UK%20economy&_kx=7-qKBjBWXPSIIDZh3k0_g1jcXlt9EWItboTQvgZszu4%3D.YjCYwm

MaizieD Sat 01-Oct-22 00:10:49

As a companion to the above, have a read of Sam Freedman's twitter thread:

mobile.twitter.com/Samfr/status/1575958388772855808

nanna8 Sat 01-Oct-22 02:10:41

I don’t want to start a new thread so apologies that this is a little off topic. In our weekend paper today there was a letter from someone about Liz Truss saying she had solved the illegal immigration occurrences to the UK . She has now made the UK a country where people are better off in their own deprived countries and no longer wished to come.

Allsorts Sat 01-Oct-22 05:42:54

I have been vocal in condemnation of Truss and KK. Yet cast your minds back to May 2010, Byrne leaving office and his sweet note to his successor, Coffers empty the monies gone, good luck you will need it. As for Sir Tony Blair, no words can express really, except he and Cherie are the picture of happiness, everything has its price.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Oct-22 05:50:40

Allsorts

I have been vocal in condemnation of Truss and KK. Yet cast your minds back to May 2010, Byrne leaving office and his sweet note to his successor, Coffers empty the monies gone, good luck you will need it. As for Sir Tony Blair, no words can express really, except he and Cherie are the picture of happiness, everything has its price.

It has always been a tradition for those leaving office and handing over to the opposition to leave little notes - usually a bit silly nor funny. Everyone does it.

So once again the Tories has perpetuated a myth by suggesting it was a one off and fooled the public.

Just how gullible are we??

Maudi Sat 01-Oct-22 06:19:08

There wasn't any money left, the note left by Byrne was true and I don't believe its a tradition to leave silly notes, I think you just made that up. You can never trust Labour with the economy.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Oct-22 06:27:48

Maudi

There wasn't any money left, the note left by Byrne was true and I don't believe its a tradition to leave silly notes, I think you just made that up. You can never trust Labour with the economy.

Grasping at straws are we? Notes have always been left. Full stop.

The sub-prime mortgage disaster - totally illegal scheme thought up by greedy bankers - caused the crash - it began in the USA and spread to the U.K.

How often does this have to be said!!

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Oct-22 06:29:56

Talking about no money being left.

We lost 65 Billion pounds just to prevent a major catastrophe, this is on top of the 45 Billion lost in tax revenue, the 100 Billion given to the energy companies for no reason and the 500 Billion lost in market value.

Nearly 1 Trillion has been thrown away in 3 weeks

Maudi Sat 01-Oct-22 06:33:24

I'm not grasping at straws there was no money left a known fact just shows how stupid Byrne was admitting it whether it was a silly note or not. Never trust Labour with the economy.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Oct-22 06:36:00

Maudi

I'm not grasping at straws there was no money left a known fact just shows how stupid Byrne was admitting it whether it was a silly note or not. Never trust Labour with the economy.

??

Shall I do a Truss?

“I don’t accept the premise of your argument”

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Oct-22 06:37:08

Maudi

I'm not grasping at straws there was no money left a known fact just shows how stupid Byrne was admitting it whether it was a silly note or not. Never trust Labour with the economy.

What did Labour do to cause the sub-prime catastrophe?

Casdon Sat 01-Oct-22 06:38:03

There is no evidence that the UK fares worse under Labour economically Maudi. It’s a myth.
www.ons.gov.uk/chartimage?uri=/economy/economicoutputandproductivity/output/articles/changesintheeconomysincethe1970s/2019-09-02/19aa8303

Wyllow3 Sat 01-Oct-22 06:39:01

MaizieD thank you for the long detailed background to the policies - I've copied and pasted them to keep to be able to see the origins and read-around. its been a long time since I did a smidgeon of economics at uni!
and I feel its very important to understand.

Need less to say my eyes a-lighted on "I have no interest in equality. I think it’s an incorrect policy objective."

to me that reads, "I have no interest in morality" as well as being part of a rift of policies that cannot work for our very own NHS, benefits and care system, because these systems depend on a completely different set of economic and social values

Maudi Sat 01-Oct-22 06:49:20

Same argument applies to Boris, did Boris cause the Covid pandemic, the Ukraine war and the energy crisis.

volver Sat 01-Oct-22 07:27:56

He didn't cause them but he did SFA to make anything better. Except maybe send anti tank artillery to Ukraine.

Governments are supposed to manage their way through problems, not sit there telling us it's not their fault.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 01-Oct-22 07:32:48

I think that this week there has been a sea change in British politics, just as Callaghan identified in the late 70s.

We came within hours of a complete pension crash, and Britain could have become another Lehman Brothers as a result of the British government’s actions.

Truss now finds herself totally boxed in. She could retreat, and reverse the tax cuts, which will totally piss off her benefactors or she could continue with her policy which will totally piss off the Tory party. - she barely had a third of MPs support.

Then came the news of the polls - which showed a 33% labour lead. There has been no honeymoon period or bounce for Truss.

I read that there are conversations taking place between Tory MPs and labour about removing several key bits of the budget. There only needs 30+ Tory MPs voting against for these to fail.
This would be a disaster for Truss, and all the time Sunak and Johnson are circling around Truss.

But what an irony though. The markets on whom the Tories have always depended for support have made their feelings felt big time this week.

It all goes back to Brexit. These cuts and bonfire of regulations are what it’s proponents wanted. Truss is following through with the promises made by the fanatics, and look where it has landed us.

So, what does Truss do now? She is fighting on all fronts. This is an economic, social and political crises, brought about by just 3 weeks of her premiership.
It is bad now, but there is a lot more pain to come.

So next week her speech is going to be pretty vital. She has to talk to her MPs - who are in utter despair - the voting public - who has rated her public standing as the lowest ever and the markets who have already voiced their opinion. On top of which she is a very poor communicator - look at her radio broadcast this week.

What a contrast to last year.

With thanks to The News Agents.

allule Sat 01-Oct-22 07:49:25

Apparently ironic notes from outgoing chancellors were traditionally private jokes.
When we finally get rid of this lot, the leaving note will say…
Sorry, there are no public services.

Dickens Sat 01-Oct-22 08:05:36

Maudi

Same argument applies to Boris, did Boris cause the Covid pandemic, the Ukraine war and the energy crisis.

But no one's blamed Johnson for the pandemic, war or global hike in energy prices; these events happening when they did were clearly outside his control.

Holding him to account for his response to them is not blaming him for them. Which is exactly what happened to Brown after the sub-prime fiasco - he was grilled by vested interests and the electorate at large for the way he handled the fall-out.

And BTW, it really is a tradition for outgoing incumbents to leave notes for their successors. Some are humorous, some wise and 'friendly' and some, like Byrne's - facetious. Reggie Maudling in '64 (outgoing Tory chancellor), bumping into Jim Callaghan - who was also a personal friend - famously told him "Sorry old cock, to leave it in this shape". WWM2 didn't just make it up.

MaizieD Sat 01-Oct-22 08:20:26

Maudi has repeated the note story time and time again and has been told time and time again the correct version. There is absolutely no convincing a completely closed mind.

In the meantime I'm a bit surprised at minimal reaction to the story I labouriously c&p'd last night. ☹️

Maudi Sat 01-Oct-22 08:40:22

08:20MaizieD
Ha ha life doesn't revolve around GN although for some it probably does. Just because you post something on here enough times doesn't make it true whether you believe it or not and the same applies to me also. Time will tell if Liz Truss can turn things around I'm willing to give her a chance.

What do you think Starmer and his crew (the uneducated Angela Rayner she's an asset to the party haha, even Starmer agrees with me but he's stuck with her the unions pay the piper) (David Lammy with a big chip on his shoulder about, well I can't say otherwise I will get reported) what do you think they would be able to do now, wave a magic wand, bow to the unions. Dish out benefit after benefit to the work shy. Tax the workers to the hilt.