First major U-turn

Maizie because the scientists, technologists, world class university departments and research centres are in the UK and as well as producing highly qualified British scientists, they are so good the best scientists and technologist from other countries want to come here to study and do research,

The easiest way to make use of their work and have the scientists close by to advise and undertake commissioned work, is to set up your business where all these people are.

It is much easier for an entrepreneur to set up a business where there is a large number of highly qualified people, than to go to all the expense of trying to set up a minihub in another country.

While many people do go and study and work abroad, it is often only for a few years and it is to other centres of excellence in their discipline; big North American or European universities and research centres.

Most people prefer to stay in the countries they were born and brought up in and where friends and family are. They are not going to move away from world class institutions, with so many fellow scientists round them to go to some small minihub thousands of miles away, which cannot compete with where they are, and could fail and leave them marooned and without help in another country.

Pammie1

For context - if the proposed cut to the 45p rate had gone ahead , someone earning £1m a year would be around £43000 a year better off. For someone like me, at the bottom end, taking 1p in the £ off the basic rate would give me an extra £120 a year. Not much trickles down does it ?

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Truss rejected the idea of further "handouts" as a way of helping those most affected by the cost-of-living crisis - the very language she used indicates her contempt for those who are struggling.

She talked about growing the economy so that there would also be more money to pay for front-line public services. That is so mealy-mouthed that it makes me inwardly rage. Since when did a libertarian, free-market idealogue care about public services?

And if she uses the word "deliver" or the mantra "delivering to the British people" one more time, I might go out and howl under the moon...

Maizie because the scientists, technologists, world class university departments and research centres are in the UK and as well as producing highly qualified British scientists, they are so good the best scientists and technologist from other countries want to come here to study and do research

I'm afraid that's not true any more.

Since Brexit, the attractiveness of our research institutions has diminished considerably because they cannot partner so easily with overseas organisations. Partnerships usually rely on multi-national collaborations and many of our collaborations were possible because of agreements in place due to our membership of the EU - with both EU and non-EU countries.

"Financial stability" is not really relevant.

There was a lot of language used by all the Tories being interviewed talking about the need to make our public services “world class etc, when it is clear from their announcements that our public services which is already on its knees are going to suffer further severe cuts.

They do it quite deliberately, misleading the public and frankly lying

Another u-turn - mini this time.

Kwarteng is going to bring forward the OBR forecast, not leave it until 23 Nov.

Whitewavemark2

There was a lot of language used by all the Tories being interviewed talking about the need to make our public services “world class etc, when it is clear from their announcements that our public services which is already on its knees are going to suffer further severe cuts.

They do it quite deliberately, misleading the public and frankly lying

I have stopped believing anything - it is all spin. I feel very sad about the superficial world we now live in - all surface gloss and no substance. And they just go on getting away with it.

Do they think we are fools and are taken in by all this?

?‍♀️

But they are not the "idiots" some suggest. I don't find them particularly likeable (others may), nor do I agree with their views of the world and the politics they believe in, encouraged by that view. However, you underestimate them at your peril if what you want is them gone.

I hope those from the far-left enjoy their hatefest. Still, it might be worth remembering that these politicians have managed to stay in power for 12 years. Who knows what they will do next? Michael Gove hinted that he could lead a new Tory rebellion on uprating benefits in line with inflation – what's he up to?

And I wouldn't under-rate Starmer either. Although, sneering seems to be the order of the day. I hope the ERGTories go, but I would not like to place any bets on anyone today.

Dickens

Pammie1

For context - if the proposed cut to the 45p rate had gone ahead , someone earning £1m a year would be around £43000 a year better off. For someone like me, at the bottom end, taking 1p in the £ off the basic rate would give me an extra £120 a year. Not much trickles down does it ?

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Truss rejected the idea of further "handouts" as a way of helping those most affected by the cost-of-living crisis - the very language she used indicates her contempt for those who are struggling.

She talked about growing the economy so that there would also be more money to pay for front-line public services. That is so mealy-mouthed that it makes me inwardly rage. Since when did a libertarian, free-market idealogue care about public services?

And if she uses the word "deliver" or the mantra "delivering to the British people" one more time, I might go out and howl under the moon...

I think the ‘in’ word at the moment is ‘diversion’.

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Dickens Mon 03-Oct-22 19:49:31

Just as we see daily that some on here don't think other people will have fundamental beliefs that differ from theirs, I would imagine that LT and KK thought that more people think like them than actually do. The false-consensus effect added to our general bias to back our own view with confirmatory information will make any of us overestimate how much our view is shared ... but now they are aware.

MayBee70

Dickens

Pammie1

For context - if the proposed cut to the 45p rate had gone ahead , someone earning £1m a year would be around £43000 a year better off. For someone like me, at the bottom end, taking 1p in the £ off the basic rate would give me an extra £120 a year. Not much trickles down does it ?

It is so utterly immoral that I truly don't know how LT and KK thought they could get away with it. Truss rejected the idea of further "handouts" as a way of helping those most affected by the cost-of-living crisis - the very language she used indicates her contempt for those who are struggling.

She talked about growing the economy so that there would also be more money to pay for front-line public services. That is so mealy-mouthed that it makes me inwardly rage. Since when did a libertarian, free-market idealogue care about public services?

And if she uses the word "deliver" or the mantra "delivering to the British people" one more time, I might go out and howl under the moon...

I think the ‘in’ word at the moment is ‘diversion’.

I’ve got that wrong, it’s distraction isn’t it…

I found the perfect illustration of Truss and Kwarteng's economic theory.

???

Gordon Brown

@GordonBrown
·
20m
It’s all there in Britannia Unchained, co-authored by Liz Truss and Kwarteng: the pound can collapse, borrowing and mortgages can soar, pensioners can freeze, kids can go hungry, as long as the economy is ripe for venture capitalists freed from regulation and, ideally, tax.

I see Braverman is intent on breaking international law.

Not a good look coming from a lawyer. How will she ever be able to practice?

Whitewavemark2

Gordon Brown

@GordonBrown
·
20m
It’s all there in Britannia Unchained, co-authored by Liz Truss and Kwarteng: the pound can collapse, borrowing and mortgages can soar, pensioners can freeze, kids can go hungry, as long as the economy is ripe for venture capitalists freed from regulation and, ideally, tax.

He even said in his speech yesterday ‘the plan from ten years ago’ then, realising he’d slipped up said ‘ ten days ago’. It was a Freudian slip. What they’re doing now has been planned for a long time. They’re doing it in full sight of the electorate and still people say there’s no alternative. The only reason fellow Conservatives are turning against Truss and Kwarteng is because they can see power slipping away from them. This country is in such a mess that we’re currently living under the threat of nuclear war and we’re too tired and stressed to even worry about it.

MayBee70

Whitewavemark2

Gordon Brown

@GordonBrown
·
20m
It’s all there in Britannia Unchained, co-authored by Liz Truss and Kwarteng: the pound can collapse, borrowing and mortgages can soar, pensioners can freeze, kids can go hungry, as long as the economy is ripe for venture capitalists freed from regulation and, ideally, tax.

He even said in his speech yesterday ‘the plan from ten years ago’ then, realising he’d slipped up said ‘ ten days ago’. It was a Freudian slip. What they’re doing now has been planned for a long time. They’re doing it in full sight of the electorate and still people say there’s no alternative. The only reason fellow Conservatives are turning against Truss and Kwarteng is because they can see power slipping away from them. This country is in such a mess that we’re currently living under the threat of nuclear war and we’re too tired and stressed to even worry about it.

I think you’ve been a bit harsh in saying the only reason other Tory MPs are turning away is because they can see power slipping away - to be fair I think there are still some moderate right Tories hanging in there, who genuinely don’t agree with the far right agenda now being pursued. As you know, I’m not a Tory, but I think we should be even handed when apportioning the blame for this disaster.

He even said in his speech yesterday ‘the plan from ten years ago’ then, realising he’d slipped up said ‘ ten days ago’

Yes, I heard that.

I'm sure there are some decent Tories out there but they've been sidelined and the only power remaining to them is to vote with the Opposition against these proposals.

There certainly are a good many decent Conservatives but as parliament hasn’t been sitting we haven’t heard much from them. We shall, I have no doubt.

Casdon

MayBee70

Whitewavemark2

Gordon Brown

@GordonBrown
·
20m
It’s all there in Britannia Unchained, co-authored by Liz Truss and Kwarteng: the pound can collapse, borrowing and mortgages can soar, pensioners can freeze, kids can go hungry, as long as the economy is ripe for venture capitalists freed from regulation and, ideally, tax.

He even said in his speech yesterday ‘the plan from ten years ago’ then, realising he’d slipped up said ‘ ten days ago’. It was a Freudian slip. What they’re doing now has been planned for a long time. They’re doing it in full sight of the electorate and still people say there’s no alternative. The only reason fellow Conservatives are turning against Truss and Kwarteng is because they can see power slipping away from them. This country is in such a mess that we’re currently living under the threat of nuclear war and we’re too tired and stressed to even worry about it.

I think you’ve been a bit harsh in saying the only reason other Tory MPs are turning away is because they can see power slipping away - to be fair I think there are still some moderate right Tories hanging in there, who genuinely don’t agree with the far right agenda now being pursued. As you know, I’m not a Tory, but I think we should be even handed when apportioning the blame for this disaster.

I would have agreed with that at one time. But Johnson got rid of the decent ones.

A bit of a sweeping statement MayBee.

But Johnson got rid of the decent ones.
Some are still there, as I said sidelined or threatened with having the Whip removed

Callistemon21

^But Johnson got rid of the decent ones.^
Some are still there, as I said sidelined or threatened with having the Whip removed

But if they remove the whip from too many the tories lose their majority...

I understand that sufficient MPs were rebelling so as to make that a distinct possibility.

Have you seen the post about hung parliament?

If she turned once she can be turned again. Go to it, you one nation Tories. Get rid of the tax reductions. Get mortgages back to where they were before the incompetents made a mess.

Germanshepherdsmum

A bit of a sweeping statement MayBee.

He got rid of Grieve. He’s a decent man and he was treated badly. Rory has left the party. Anna wouldn’t serve under him. If the remaining ones are decent they still follow the party whip and their voting records are appalling. Tugendhat, who I thought was a good guy then supported Truss and got himself a cabinet post.