THERE should not be a second independence referendum even if the Supreme Court deems it legal, Liz Truss has said.

Oh, not again.

Sorry Septimia, but this is so old.

Did people living in France or Italy, or Lithuania, get to vote on whether we should Brexit?

You live in Scotland, you pay your tax in Scotland, you get to have a say in how Scotland runs. Thems the breaks.

Urmstongran

I would imagine so volver if the result of another referendum is a resounding ‘no’. What do you think? Will referendums be regularly called for until you get the result you want?

I won't be giving up Urmstongran

I don't know how the voting will go in such a scenario.

But I do know we won't just be giving up on wanting independence just like that.

I disagree with you about the voting format Septimia although I do agree the actual result will affect us all in many ways. However I think the vote should come from the people who actually live in Scotland.

Bit like the Brexit vote in 2016 when some ex-pats, living in France, were annoyed to be sidelined and wanted to vote but they were residents of France not actually living in the UK!

X posts volver. Something we actually agree on!

I'm going for a lie down

?

I actually find the independence issue quite hurtful. I know the "anti" aspect is directed mostly at the government but it feels like Scottish people don't want anything to do with the rest of us. Moreover, they already have more say about what goes on and are less 'cut off' than those of us in North-east England.

My direction of choice for holidays is northwards into Scotland and I greatly prefer Edinburgh to London. I know it may be considered silly, but it all makes me feel unwanted and unwelcome.

As for comparisons with Brexit, any independence vote should require a wide enough margin as to make objections futile - which the Brexit vote didn't, it was far too close.

I'm sorry you find the independence issue hurtful Septimia.

However Scotland is not here to make you feel wanted. I enjoy visiting the North of England, Newcastle in particular. My husband was born in England.

Being pro independence is not anti anything. Its pro-Scotland. There are some numpties on the side of independence who give the rest of us a bad name, same as there are Unionists who think that everyone in Scotland is a separatist who hates England, and that they deserve online hate and worse.

When you come to Scotland don't treat us like North Britain and don't think we are all shortbread and pipers; I'm not saying you do that, but too many do and they get disappointed when they realise we're not Brigadoon, we're a proper modern country. So come and say Hiya and pay attention to how most people will treat you and ignore the numpties.

Septimia

Since there are so many English people living north of the Border and so many Scots living south of it (let alone those either side with Scots or English ancestry, or family living the other side), perhaps we should all, whether we live in England or Scotland, have the opportunity to vote in such a referendum. After all, the result will affect all of us.

I don't remember anyone suggesting that residents in Lithuania should have been able to vote in the 2016 Brexit referendum.

Petera

Septimia

Since there are so many English people living north of the Border and so many Scots living south of it (let alone those either side with Scots or English ancestry, or family living the other side), perhaps we should all, whether we live in England or Scotland, have the opportunity to vote in such a referendum. After all, the result will affect all of us.

I don't remember anyone suggesting that residents in Lithuania should have been able to vote in the 2016 Brexit referendum.

Sorry Volver you got there first and I didn't read the whole thread...

Liz Truss says there should not be a second referendum and won't countenance one on her watch.

If the Supreme Court deems it legal, then there's not a lot she can do about it.

But what tactic(s) will she use to try to prevent it?

Scotland was taken out of the EU against their collective will, I think that alters the dynamics somewhat...

Totally agree Dickens.
Cameron virtually promised at the time what wasn’t his to give (continued EU membership) and I think that encouraged many Scots to go for independence. If they want it (and vote for it) they should of course have it. However I don’t agree with repeat referendums on the issue. Make the case for it, bang the drum, get voters animated and enthusiastic, then abide by the result as a one-off in a generation.

Would a mandatory vote for all citizens work do you think? So many young in the UK couldn’t be bothered to vote over Brexit then bleated afterwards when they didn’t like the result. Maybe they assumed it was a foregone conclusion.

It really is no good citizens whinging afterwards and in my opinion the SNP needs to make this next referendum watertight. Maybe they already have robust plans in place, I don’t know enough about what they propose.

No need for a mandatory vote. The turnout last time was a record breaking 86%.

Can we just drop the "once in a generation thing? It's so tiresome...

Why?
I think it festers continuously if it’s always getting brought up. Will we never be free of ruminating over it unless the nationalists get the result they yearn for?

I think it’s more ‘tiresome’ not being decided.
Okay - maybe not ‘once and for all’ as situations change - but at least for a very decent length of time volver.

And so it continues.. Here is the history.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath

Do you think the judges will take into account this Declaration signed in 1320? I suppose they must. It’s 700 years ago. Is it relevant now?

There is a political party in Scotland, one of whose major policies is that there will be an opportunity to vote for independence. People keep voting for that party to be the lead party in the Scottish Parliament. Along with other independence supporting parties, they get a consistent majority in Parliament.

So anybody who says that they think there shouldn't be any more referendums is not ignoring what that party or its leader say, they are ignoring the voters of Scotland. Now I'm not naive enough to think that everybody votes SNP because they are desperately wanting a referendum. But nobody votes SNP without knowing that their main aim is independence.

Any talk of "you can't have a referendum 'cause you've already had one" is just wiped out by the fact that we vote for another one. Nobody gets to say but the people of Scotland, and we say we're having another one.

It may well be that under the current constitutional set up, the Court rule that there are no legal grounds for a referendum. Where does that leave us? A country where people want to decide on whether to leave a Union but they are not allowed to? What kind of set up is that?

Who pays for these referendums?

As long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

That's always relevant.

I felt the same about sovereignty when I voted Leave regarding Brexit volver so I get where you’re coming from and why you feel so passionate about it.

I return though to my question: who will fund this referendum? And maybe another one, down the line?

I believe the Scottish Government foot the bill, the last one cost around 13 mil.
The EU referendum cost around £129 mil, paid presumably by the UK government.

Urmstongran

I felt the same about sovereignty when I voted Leave regarding Brexit volver so I get where you’re coming from and why you feel so passionate about it.

I return though to my question: who will fund this referendum? And maybe another one, down the line?

Actually for some of us it's not about sovereignty; we’re not nationalists, we’re social democrats who have come to the conclusion that independence is the only way to achieve that.

so I get where you’re coming from and why you feel so passionate about it.

No you don't. Not at all. Brexit was about withdrawing from the world and trying to say we're different to everyone else and we don't need anybody else. Independence is about being able to partake in the wider world and not hold ourselves up as something unique. To think otherwise is very misguided indeed.

I would vote for Scottish Independance as long as it is total independance with a customs border. Many compare them with Norway which has a pretty good economy in The EEA, best of luck to the Scots if they think they can emulate it.

So if the Scottish government foot the bill of c.£15million that sum is paid for by the (only) 5 million or so residents? That’s a lot of money per capita - especially as it might get repeated.

I still say ‘have it, canvass for it vigorously and then accept the result’.