Are young people turning gay?

So if the term "Bi" is a generalisation are all the words we use to describe someone's sexuality? So is saying someone is straight, gay or lesbian all generalisation? And if not why is "Bi' different?

If gender is also fluid shouldn't we then be providing for that fluidity? I know gender is a social construct I've never had problems with that. I don't have problems with transpeople I take them as they appear which is all one can do in reality.

Rosie51

G said It's simply a short way of saying what it takes Doodledog several paragraphs to describe. And I do like brevity.

She'll likely not read my reply then. Oh dear

It's easy to avoid debate by saying you cba to read long posts, or that you don't respond to questions, or by just ignoring them and wishing people a good evening, but that is why these 'debates' never move on.

It looks a bit desperate when one sentence is described as 'several paragraphs' though . The whole post was only 2 short paragraphs.

FWIW, I read your post (it crossed with mine, which is why I didn't reference it) and think that if it is ignored it will be because you are asking difficult questions.

Why a group that was formed to advance the cause of lesbian, gay and bisexual people would want to include heterosexuals who have decided that they want to join because they are trans is beyond me, too. Doing that would, by definition, change the remit. I know that analogies are often problematic on here, but to me it's akin to lager drinkers wanting to join CAMRA. It doesn't mean that the members of CAMRA or LGB Alliance have anything against the people wanting to join - it's just that a mixed membership wouldn't concentrate on the reasons the group was formed in the first place.

Doodledog

Lathyrus

They’re called Bi, that’s what the B stands for.

No I think that fitting people into the label you feel comfortable with.

Bi surely means an attraction to both sexes.

But it’s perfectly possible for someone to be heterosexual at one stage of their life and then homosexual at another, without being attracted to the other set at either of those times.

Fluid, in fact.

As my cousin said about his life. “It was always about the person, not what sex they were”.

Exactly so, Lathyrus.

That was my cousin doodledog from gay to straight after his male partner died.

He fell in love with a lovely woman.

doodledog

In the same way I don't understand how anyone can see anything negative in "have a good evening"

I can't see how my reply to that has anything to do with or says anything about anyone else?

I like purple, so do lots of other people

If I say "I like purple", usually people say " I like purple too!" Not "erm, you aren't the only one who likes purple you know, are you trying to insinuate you are the only one?"

Two examples of how far people are reaching to find something negative to twist on my words

Both ridiculous

Mollygo

VS
And supporting binders as doing no harm rather than sometimes being a better option than other types of harm is not great either.
And yet you supported binders.
As you are fond of saying,
“Oh dear.”

I said that manufactored binders are a better alternative than home made binders, sever anxiety and depression self harming and suicide yes.

Let's be honest about what I said

Any other questions to me, agree with glorianny

Let's be honest about what I said
Ooh VioletSky you are asking for a lot on these threads!

I heard a scientific/climate person on tv say there's tons of chemicals in river water now, some animals who live in water near industry are changing sex or their private parts are not right. It's a theory. I did hear this many years ago too when discussing the Pill and affects on men via recycled drinking water

VioletSky

doodledog

In the same way I don't understand how anyone can see anything negative in "have a good evening"

I can't see how my reply to that has anything to do with or says anything about anyone else?

I like purple, so do lots of other people

If I say "I like purple", usually people say " I like purple too!" Not "erm, you aren't the only one who likes purple you know, are you trying to insinuate you are the only one?"

Two examples of how far people are reaching to find something negative to twist on my words

Both ridiculous

There is nothing negative in saying 'have a good evening'. Of course not. What is negative is using it to brush aside the comments of others, as is calling peoples' posts 'ridiculous', and as are the other things I mentioned, such as positioning yourself as the one who is saying what she means (do you think we don't? If not, why mention it?) and as the one who wishes nobody any harm.

It is ironic that you end a post filled with 'you' and how you don't wish anyone ill, you only say what you think, and you wish everyone a good evening by talking about a waste of energy, when reading all of that isn't adding anything at all to the discussion.

Re the binders - it may be true that manufactured ones are 'better' than home made, but the point is that it is remarkably presumptuous of an organisation to tell children that it is ok to go behind their parents' backs to get them, and extremely disconcerting to see the background and behaviour of those at the top of that organisations come to light. Whether children should be given binders at all is debatable, but it is not, IMO, for anyone other than their parents and psychologists to make that decision for them.

Glorianny

*Let's be honest about what I said*
Ooh VioletSky you are asking for a lot on these threads!

Excuse me. You are the one who has redefined what I was talking about to suit your definition (to something I didn't mean), called one of my posts 'completely irrelevant' and 'based on an untenable position' without having read it, written off disagreements as a 'bitchfest', told us that our 'main complaint' was that the survey in the OP was designed by Stonewall (when no - it is that the research questions are deeply flawed) and suggested that a post of mine was 'wrong' in some way because it didn't mirror one of Rosie's.

Being honest about what people say isn't a strong point of yours, is it? ()

VioletSky

Mollygo

VS
And supporting binders as doing no harm rather than sometimes being a better option than other types of harm is not great either.
And yet you supported binders.
As you are fond of saying,
“Oh dear.”

I said that manufactored binders are a better alternative than home made binders, sever anxiety and depression self harming and suicide yes.

Let's be honest about what I said

Hmm, I’ve been thinking about this.

It’s a bit like someone being caught speeding through a village and saying “Well it’s better than not getting to the hospital on time and dying.”

So you take something that might happen in a few incidences ( the need to get to hospital) (suicide because you can’t get a binder) and you use it for justification of an action that is known to cause greater harm (speeding in built up areas)(medical consequences of binding breasts).

That’s could be an need for self justification or a distortion tactic for the purpose of winning an argument.
Or maybe just a lack rational thought.

Anyway. It’s not a valid argument. It justifies nothing.

Just as a point of interest, do those who advocate manufactured binders an state as a fact that they are better than homemade ones, actually know that to be true.?

Or are they just saying it because they think that something you buy must be better than something homemade.

Is there any disinterested research into that?

If not, it’s very dangerous to give that assurance to anyone, isn’t it? As well as untrue.

Why would anybody say they were better if they actually didn’t know whether they were or not.

Look forward to having a link to the research posted.

There is pretty much zero research on any of this, was one of the findings of the Cass review, even social affirmation no proper research on whether beneficial or harmless.

I don’t know Lathyrus and I’ll have to go and research VS and binders, because I don’t recollect whether she ever mentioned the word manufactured in her support of supplying binders, which have the potential to cause irreversible damage.

Lathyrus

Just as a point of interest, do those who advocate manufactured binders an state as a fact that they are better than homemade ones, actually know that to be true.?

Or are they just saying it because they think that something you buy must be better than something homemade.

Is there any disinterested research into that?

If not, it’s very dangerous to give that assurance to anyone, isn’t it? As well as untrue.

Why would anybody say they were better if they actually didn’t know whether they were or not.

Look forward to having a link to the research posted.

Lathyrus There is a lot of evidence that girls are using much more harmful things as homemade binders. Google "Girls using duct tape" there's some awful advice on line including Tik Tok videos which will be watched by very young girls.
Supplying proper advice and proper binders must be better surely?
I agree there is a lack of research the trouble with teenage girls is they tend not to get their advice from experts but from their peers

Rosie51 and Doodledog the problem is you confuse misinterpreting your posts, or interpreting them differently to the way you intended, which anyone may do, with telling people what they have said and frequently completely falsely representing their views. You won't find one post where I say. "Doodledog said" or "Rosie51 said". The number of times the words "Glorianny said" have been posted or "You said", mostly quite incorrectly, have been posted I can't count. If I do challenge a post I tend to quote the post I am challenging not make up things someone has said.

There is a lot of evidence that girls are using much more harmful things as homemade binders. Google "Girls using duct tape" there's some awful advice on line including Tik Tok videos which will be watched by very young girls.
Supplying proper advice and proper binders must be better surely?
Warning children of the damage they can cause should come top of the list instead of promoting ‘safer’ binders.
Otherwise it’s like saying Ecstasy is less dangerous than Cocaine.

Mollygo

There is a lot of evidence that girls are using much more harmful things as homemade binders. Google "Girls using duct tape" there's some awful advice on line including Tik Tok videos which will be watched by very young girls.
Supplying proper advice and proper binders must be better surely?
Warning children of the damage they can cause should come top of the list instead of promoting ‘safer’ binders.
Otherwise it’s like saying Ecstasy is less dangerous than Cocaine.

Actually it isn't because neither come with advice and are both illegal. You can buy duct tape at any DIY store or supermarket.
It's more like a child hearing on line that opium can relieve a headache and being able to buy opium over the counter (like Victorian women could). Or she could go to the chemist and ask for a suitable headache remedy with some advice. Which would you rather she did?

FWIW, I read your post (it crossed with mine, which is why I didn't reference it) and think that if it is ignored it will be because you are asking difficult questions.
thanks Doodledog, I think we can safely say QED.

bluejay29

I heard a scientific/climate person on tv say there's tons of chemicals in river water now, some animals who live in water near industry are changing sex or their private parts are not right. It's a theory. I did hear this many years ago too when discussing the Pill and affects on men via recycled drinking water

This post has been overlooked and is something I was thinking about. I read some time ago there is evidence that fish are changing gender, and this of course raises questions about all the female hormones in the water which may affect men. We have had the contraceptive pill since the 1960s and in recent years HRT all of which are being washed into the water system. So is it possible this could affect men?

doodledog it is ridiculous as it is being taken to extremes

As I said, I don't need you or anyone else to narrate my existence or set the rules for discussion

Especially when I'm actually answering and explaining something to a different poster

Without their comment mine would not have been necessary

Chestnut

I've brought up many times that scientists have found differences in the genes of trans people and that it has been hypothesised that the brain may have been washed with hormones during pregnancy that have altered internal gender.

Chemicals found in water could very well be a contributing factor but trans people have existed since before the invention of the pill

So it's a possibility bit obviously not the only one.

I just want them to hurry up and get to the public inquiry, its a matter of time now rather than if.

glorianny I've also heard of duck tape being used, also sellotape and clingfilm. Not good for the skin and likely to be done much much too tight

Yes that is the sort of thing I meant by home made

There are also many many websites advising safer alternatives... Mermaids didn't even come up as a top search for me

A lot of them were videos made by young people themselves

It is not something we can prevent but we can advise safer methods and at least prevent some harm

It's a route we take with many issues like advising a self harmer to hurt themselves by flicking their wrists with an elastic band or holding ice as an alternative to cutting. This done while also giving counselling or therapy to help resolve that need.

That seems the way forward to me to prevent mutilation and suicide

Its not ideal but there is no cure for gender dysphoria except validation and acceptance

Glorianny it would be better if there was warning about the potential harm ANY binder could do, instead of promoting some as being safe, which you and VS appear to do, or dismissing it because they could find harmful things on the internet.