Are young people turning gay?

Doodledog

If GN had a bookie's, I would be rich, as I would have bet a small fortune on you failing to recognise an allegory for what it is. Again, it was ever thus.

If that is meant for me I recognise an allegory. I also know when one is appropriate and if it's a clever one. Soaps and sexual orientation -inappropriate!

Well said WW. Good to have a point of view expressed by someone directly affected, not a bystander who thinks she know better.
Glorianny she didn’t lump anyone together -though you just mentioned it. WW just said Lesbians have a right not to be lumped under the same umbrella as trans. Are you denying her that right? You say.
But transwomen are not the whole community. There are transmen as well, are they just to be lumped in with those who promote or advocate forced sex
Who, apart from you here, suggested they should be?
The issue about forced sex is caused by those trans who do it and, by doing it, imply that all trans are the same. They are the ones making life hard for innocent trans.

Sadly for all the non-violent, non cheating, trans, the violent TIM/TIW under their umbrella are making life hard for them.

I like Eastenders. I’m gay. I wonder which of those a parent would find more life-changing.

Actually I was more upset when my daughter said she was voting Conservative.

(Sorry Tory members of Gransnet. ?)

Glorianny

Doodledog

If GN had a bookie's, I would be rich, as I would have bet a small fortune on you failing to recognise an allegory for what it is. Again, it was ever thus.

If that is meant for me I recognise an allegory. I also know when one is appropriate and if it's a clever one. Soaps and sexual orientation -inappropriate!

Just thought-so don't think I completely ignore your posts DD. If you want a purely literary criticism I would suggest you examine every word and cut the piece. Less is more, especially in sustained allegory which is difficult to keep interesting.

Glorianny

Doodledog

If GN had a bookie's, I would be rich, as I would have bet a small fortune on you failing to recognise an allegory for what it is. Again, it was ever thus.

If that is meant for me I recognise an allegory. I also know when one is appropriate and if it's a clever one. Soaps and sexual orientation -inappropriate!

So have you 'been arsed' to read it now? You were declaring it 'completely untenable' before you'd even bothered, and now that you (presumably) have, you have decided it is 'inappropriate', as you appear to be reading it as a comparison.

I never know with you whether you really don't understand, or whether you are just trying to make it difficult for people to illustrate how things work by using an analogy by making it such hard work.

Let me explain. A direct comparison with something irrelevant, such as saying that criticising TRAs is equivalent to racism or homophobia is offensive, and often used as a diversion.

An allegory - taking one situation and describing it in terms of another - entirely different, one, is not making a direct comparison. The point is that it is indirect, so avoids being offensive (unless the subject matter is inherently so). By stepping outside of the original topic, an allegory can add complexity to a narrative and point out absurdities within.

Takeaway if the above is too long - my post was not making a direct comparison - nobody would compare soap opera allegiance with sexuality (or sexuality with so called 'gender', unless they were massaging figures to suit their own agenda).

Oh, and thanks for you kind offer, but if I wanted lit crit of my posts there are many people I'd ask before troubling you .

Lathyrus

I like Eastenders. I’m gay. I wonder which of those a parent would find more life-changing.

Actually I was more upset when my daughter said she was voting Conservative.

(Sorry Tory members of Gransnet. ?)

.

Can't blame you for that .

WomblerWombling

^I'm perfectly entitled to mine and you don't get a vote to take it. No one does^
And yet you feel its perfectly OK for the umbrella to be snatched from over the LGBQs, given to the Ts and then give the LGBQs a good kicking for not joining them under the umbrella. YOU might not care which umbrella you choose violetsky but those of us who worked for years to build that umbrella, felt safe and secure beneath it, are gutted and afraid that it's been snatched from over us. You speak of voting? We Ls didn't vote for this. You speak of inclusion? We're more marginalised and afraid now than ever. You think trans people have something in common with LGB? I'm guessing you're not an L.

You’re wasting your time Wombler.

You only get to have your voice heard if you’re in the whole package. Otherwise it’s not allowed.

Good to hear from you anyway. How many voices do we need before the entrenched will start to listen? ?

What did they do to me Glorianny? Nothing that the police can take action against apparently, just intimidation towards a group of us women who've been meeting in the same place for years and years and are now to intimidated to go to any more. As a fellow lesbian I'm surprised you had to ask.

Mollygo

I am the B under the umbrella.

As I said, there are other umbrellas

I prefer the biggest one though

Wombler

I don't waste my time on comments that tell me what I think or mean.

Why would I?

I'll answer a question

But assumptions are a big nope.

Other organisations exist, you xan belong wherever you feel fit

I'm happy where I am thanks

VioletSky
I am the B under the umbrella.

???
Is that the ? B you’re claiming to be?

When we refer to somebody as a B it isn’t a compliment, but if you want to be the B, go for it.

There we are wombler.

You’ve spoken about a real happening. It doesn’t fit the narrative so violetsky in her own words “won’t waste her time” on you.

It’s just a way of silencing, of course. Fingers in ears.
If you keep posting you may be called a liar or get a more direct threat of “Just stop”.
I guess that sort of of stuff won’t be new to you.

But we hear you. Don’t be silenced

Yes, you'll get used to it WW. Glorianny 'can't be arsed' to read a post so she clearly misunderstands it, VS doesn't 'waste her time' on a post, but instead claims that her membership of a group gives her the right to speak for everyone else in it.

It's always the same. Next will be accusations of 'hounding' and a flounce or two.

It's always the same. Next will be accusations of 'hounding' and a flounce or two.
Doodledog how can you say that!

You forgot to mention be kind.

VS Other organisations exist, you can belong wherever you feel fit

I wonder why the only lgb charity LGBAlliance is being attacked by Mermaids who are appealing for it to lose its charity status? Stonewall were originally going to be a party to the allegations but then withdrew. That's had one fortunate side effect of shining a light on Mermaids and their total lack of any expertise or safeguarding practices. Mermaids may well find their charity status removed, as not fit for purpose.

No group is safe from allegations of transphobia if they don't include transpeople under their umbrella, so where do you suggest lesbians or other females that want to be assured of totally single sex spaces go? Gay men are also complaining they can't hold men only events.

That's awful Wombler. I hope you'll be able to find another meeting place where you'll be left in peace.

It's very sad but no surprise that you are now "more marginalised and afraid than ever". It's what so many of us here on GN have worried and posted about for some time now.

WomblerWombling

What did they do to me Glorianny? Nothing that the police can take action against apparently, just intimidation towards a group of us women who've been meeting in the same place for years and years and are now to intimidated to go to any more. As a fellow lesbian I'm surprised you had to ask.

That is sad WomblerWombling and of course no one should be intimidated. It doesn't match with my experiences where I have always been treated with the greatest respect and kindness at any event which was held under the LGBTQ umbrella. In fact the way a group of us older women were greeted and welcomed at an event we attended, where most of those present were 20 and 30 years younger than us, really touched us.
I wonder though is it fair to blame all transpeople for your experience. There are a fair number of disrespectful, abusive teenagers (and pre-teens) about. Their behaviour on public transport can be intimidating, I've experienced it. I wouldn't however say all teens were like that and I wouldn't expect them to be treated differently by anyone because some of them behave badly.
It's one thing to say you want nothing to do with any of them, which is fair enough. It's quite another to say they should be dropped by every organisation.

Doodledog

Yes, you'll get used to it WW. Glorianny 'can't be arsed' to read a post so she clearly misunderstands it, VS doesn't 'waste her time' on a post, but instead claims that her membership of a group gives her the right to speak for everyone else in it.

It's always the same. Next will be accusations of 'hounding' and a flounce or two.

None of that is true though

This is why we cant have nice things

I have a reputation at school for always knowing when someone isn't telling the truth.

A child mentioned to me the other day, "The boy who cried wolf" and how his lies got him eaten.

I said to him, yes, everyone got fed up with the lying and stopped listening to him and everyone thinks the moral of that story is, that you shouldn't tell lies.

I see it differently.

I saw a lonely unhappy boy who just wanted company. I think there is always a reason for telling lies. In the little boys case, someone visiting him and spending time with him would have prevented it all so easily.

But he was only a child and no one taught him how to get positive attention. Adults should know better

You are doing it again, Glorianny. Extrapolating your own experiences onto whole groups. You didn't believe me ages ago when I said that lesbians were being abused (and worse) by transwomen for refusing to have sex with them. If you haven't seen it, it doesn't happen.

VS
ALL of that is true though.

You said,
“None of that is true though.”

So you are saying you’ve never flounced?
Or that you or G by any other name has never made a hounding accusation?

I too have a reputation for always knowing when someone isn't telling the truth. QED

I leave threads all the time, not because I'm angry or hurt but because I no longer wish to participate. Sometimes I joke and say I'm flouncing... I'm not. I'm pretty tough tbh

I also announce when I'm leaving social events... does everyone just get up and walk out if you are invited for dinner and you decide to leave?

I also don't read comments that start with assumptions about what I think or mean.

If you want me to read your comments... don't do that?

It's a reasonable boundary

I'm happy with it

Also, if you think the B stands for bitch, then cool.

Do not see that as a negative if being a bitch means standing up for my morals, principles and boundaries... then I'm a capital B Bitch

Thanks for dinner

Doodledog

You are doing it again, Glorianny. Extrapolating your own experiences onto whole groups. You didn't believe me ages ago when I said that lesbians were being abused (and worse) by transwomen for refusing to have sex with them. If you haven't seen it, it doesn't happen.

There you go again Doodledog telling me what I think and what I have said- what's it called??? Gaslighting isn't it???
Isn't that what men do????
For the record (and for the umpteenth time) all sex should be consensual. No one should be forced, coerced or pressured into having sex and silence does not indicate consent.