Are young people turning gay?

Lathyrus

Well, I don’t approve of those actions I posted about. They are actions which are aggressive towards and impact directly on the people who are GLB and are carried out by trans people.

It may be a minority of trans people but I still don’t want to be associated with any group that carries out actions like that.

We all need to be loud in condemning abuse and violence surely in order to eradicate it. Not sweep it under the carpet and pretend it isn’t happening just because it reflects badly on a cause that we support.

Until the Trans community stands up and speaks against those trans people who carry out these behaviours, I have to assume that silence means agreement. And I, like many LGB, have no wish to be part of it.

I know a lesbian who has been regularly beaten up and abused by a series of partners. I know at least 2 women who were abused and beaten by their husbands. Gay men are raped by other gay men (watch I May DestroyYou). Violence is not the sole prerogative of trans people.
I don't consider the whole communities are responsible for these crimes. And in all interactions silence does not signify consent.

Once upon a time there was an Archers Appreciation Society, formed by fans of the radio show. They met to discuss all things Ambridge and promote their collective interests. After a while the Albert Square Superfans began to join in. It wasn't a perfect fit - radio and TV are not the same thing, and the demographics were a bit different, but it was ok really. Soap-phobia meant that Some People looked down on them thinking that soaps were downmarket, and it was fair to say that continuous serial dramas have some things in common. Nobody wanted to be exclusionary, so the meetings continued, and they began to be known as the AASASS, and it worked well, on the whole.

Gradually, the meetings started to be attended by the Coronation St Cobble Club, who were keen to be included. There were some areas of overlap, but real similarities were getting harder to come by. Attendees could discuss the British Soap Awards and so on, but it was getting increasingly difficult to find much common ground, as their core interests were different. Still, whereas AASASS were getting a bit fed up, as the meetings were basically a waste of time, they were a kindly bunch, and before long, the AASASSCSCC was born.

Meanwhile, viewers of Australian continuous dramas were feeling isolated, and gradually they, too, began to attend the events and occasions organised by the AASASSCSCC. Now even the British Soap Awards were a bit tricky to discuss. The talk turned to Ramsey Street and Cell Block H, and tensions began to rise. Some Archers fans felt excluded and didn't see themselves as remotely similar to the BBNAPHAs (Bring Back Neighbours And protect Home And Away). They didn't dislike them or anything, but felt that they were a different group with separate interests and a different outlook. They wanted their meetings back. The BBNAPHAAs were affronted, and said that they were soap fans too, and if the AAS didn't want to be their friends, they must be phobic, or worse.

They insisted on turning up at every meeting of the AAS, and getting what they saw as their fair share of any funding that had been raised by the Farm Shop, the Market and the sale of Barm Cakes - all online outlets on the AASASSCSCC website. They set up meetings called the AASASSCSCCBBNAPHAAs, (Ambridge Appreciation Society, Albert Square Superfans, Coronation Street Cobble Club, Bring Back Neighbours And Protect Home And Away) and marched with the others, singing 'that's when good neighbours become goooood frieeeeends' to drown out the others, and before long, the public came to recognise their hats with dangly corks, and accepted them as being marginalised victims. In fact, nobody dared to say otherwise, for fear of being called soap-phobic and hating anyone who'd ever turned on the TV at 7.30 or the radio at 2.00pm.

I would love to tell you, Reader, that they all lived happily ever after, but sadly that was not to be. Tune in next week to see what happened at the Ambridge Village Fair, with the Marrow competition, eel and mash and Hotpot stalls and the kangaroo-tying-down contest. Does anyone attend, or is it too diverse to be cohesive? Dum dum dum. . . . .

Ah Doodledog when you have nothing to add and your position is completely untenable introduce complete irrelevancies. Sorry couldn't be a*** to read it all. Still well done for your efforts at fiction but don't give up the day job.

Glorianny

Lathyrus

Well, I don’t approve of those actions I posted about. They are actions which are aggressive towards and impact directly on the people who are GLB and are carried out by trans people.

It may be a minority of trans people but I still don’t want to be associated with any group that carries out actions like that.

We all need to be loud in condemning abuse and violence surely in order to eradicate it. Not sweep it under the carpet and pretend it isn’t happening just because it reflects badly on a cause that we support.

Until the Trans community stands up and speaks against those trans people who carry out these behaviours, I have to assume that silence means agreement. And I, like many LGB, have no wish to be part of it.

I know a lesbian who has been regularly beaten up and abused by a series of partners. I know at least 2 women who were abused and beaten by their husbands. Gay men are raped by other gay men (watch I May DestroyYou). Violence is not the sole prerogative of trans people.
I don't consider the whole communities are responsible for these crimes. And in all interactions silence does not signify consent.

Yes these things happen and all right minded people deplore them. But I guess non of the offenders you posted about did it in the name of Lesbians or Gay men or husbands.

The actions I spoke of were carried out in the name of Transactivism.

There is a difference

Some people behave in all sorts of disgusting ways when they believe they are right

It's not right

It's not justifiable

You have condemned the trans community for the actions of a few.
No, the few you mention and their supporters have condemned the whole trans movement by tarnishing their image.

Glorianny

Ah Doodledog when you have nothing to add and your position is completely untenable introduce complete irrelevancies. Sorry couldn't be a*** to read it all. Still well done for your efforts at fiction but don't give up the day job.

As ever, you leap in with judgement without bothering to read. Nothing changes, does it, whichever ID you use .

What is it about my 'position' which is completely untenable? And if you are basing your judgement on my last post, how do you know unless you have read it? Well done for your attempt at belittling me, but don't ever serve on a jury.

I rather enjoyed it Doodledog.

introduce complete irrelevancies why did the phrase 'pot, kettle, black' spring to mind?

VioletSky

Some people behave in all sorts of disgusting ways when they believe they are right

It's not right

It's not justifiable

Yes Violet Sky,
That’s exactly the point I’ve been trying to make about some TIM and their supporters.

The problem you forget to mention is that the disgusting ways of those some people harm females and damage those trans, either TIM or TIW who don’t behave like that.

Rosie51

I rather enjoyed it Doodledog.

introduce complete irrelevancies why did the phrase 'pot, kettle, black' spring to mind?

I enjoyed it too Doodledog, except that it is worryingly reflective of what’s going on.

Oh and once again we have the other people commit crimes as well so don’t pick on trans mentioned here.
I know a lesbian who has been regularly beaten up and abused by a series of partners. I know at least 2 women who were abused and beaten by their husbands. Gay men are raped by other gay men.

Violence is not the sole prerogative of trans people.

Who has ever claimed that it is? But the violence perpetrated in the post above should not be used to excuse trans violence particularly TIM violence against females.

VioletSky

Some people behave in all sorts of disgusting ways when they believe they are right

It's not right

It's not justifiable

Some of the disgusting behaviour might be

Death threats to people who disagree with you
Physical harassment of gay men at Pride rallies who don’t wear a T-shirt you approve of
Verbal intimidation by generating derogatory labels such TERF and using these to threaten physical violence (see latest Nicola Sturgeon aide)
Seeking to remove the charitable status of a group who doesn’t want to join with your group

and in a minor way telling people in a discussion online that they don’t belong, are outside, and don’t have a say?
(See above)

It's not up to you Larhyrus unless you are in one of those groups in which case, we cancel each others votes out i would guess.

I'm not dictating who should come under an umbrella of minorities.

I'm not dictating anyone else consider themselves LGBTQ

I'm still not going to tell trans people they can't sit with me because of the actions of others who aren't them and may not even be genuinely trans.

You don't have any right to tell me where I belong or who I will sit with either

But of you want the T taken away Lathyrus and it matters to you that much....

I'm sure there are those who will listen but I wouldn't expect to get much support from anyone who identifies as LGBTQ

Sorry, I believe it's now LGBTQIA+

VS, you need to read the posts properly.
I'm still not going to tell trans people they can't sit with me because of the actions of others who aren't them and may not even be genuinely trans
Where has anyone told you to do that? I’m pleased to hear that you now believe that there may be those who may not even be genuinely trans

Are you saying that Lesbians and Gays have no right to say they don’t want to have their identities linked with trans? That’s a bit officious.

FWIW, I don't think that anyone can speak for huge groups of people - whether they are L, G, B, T, Q, A, '+' or in the Archers Appreciation Society. Claiming to be in one of the groups counts for the square root of naff all, too. I could say that I am Gavin, a 20 stone trucker from Wigan, and who would know whether that is true or not? And if it were, I couldn't speak for all Gavins, all truckers or all people from Wigan, whatever their weight.

What is true, however, is that when comparing figures for the numbers of LGBTQ+ young people with figures for LGB 'Boomers' it is completely unremarkable to find that the former is significantly higher than the latter, for all the reasons already stated on this thread. A cynic might think that the 'researchers' had a vested interest in being able to claim to represent a growing number of people, but I couldn't possibly comment on that.

I think that people are able to be comfortable with their sexuality from younger ages. When I was a teen, being gay was something whispered about, shamed, kicked out of your family over. Thankfully, that’s becoming more rare.

I don’t think there’s a rise in people being gay, I think there’s a rise in people no longer being ashamed and living their lives in the closet. And that’s a very good thing, imo

I don't listen?

Yet I'm getting a pat on the head for things I've said from the beginning

Why?

That's actually important.

I also only speak for myself.

I'm happy for the T to stay. So are many others.

What you guys don't understand is that it is an umbrella term and no one has to stand under this umbrella. They can choose a different one.

But like I said, I like this umbrella and so do many others. I feel trans people have something in common with LGB:

Words that end with "phobia"

Ignorance towards us

The need to "come out"

The risk of conversion therapy in some areas.

The risk to actual life in some areas.

The simple being different from the majority.

I don't care which umbrella you choose. I'm perfectly entitled to mine and you don't get a vote to take it. No one does

But like I said, I like this umbrella and so do many others. I feel trans people have something in common with LGB

And you don’t care if LGB don’t feel the same way. I’m just trying to think which umbrella you thinking you are right about something that doesn’t affect you comes under . . .

I'm perfectly entitled to mine and you don't get a vote to take it. No one does
And yet you feel its perfectly OK for the umbrella to be snatched from over the LGBQs, given to the Ts and then give the LGBQs a good kicking for not joining them under the umbrella. YOU might not care which umbrella you choose violetsky but those of us who worked for years to build that umbrella, felt safe and secure beneath it, are gutted and afraid that it's been snatched from over us. You speak of voting? We Ls didn't vote for this. You speak of inclusion? We're more marginalised and afraid now than ever. You think trans people have something in common with LGB? I'm guessing you're not an L.

Doodledog

FWIW, I don't think that anyone can speak for huge groups of people - whether they are L, G, B, T, Q, A, '+' or in the Archers Appreciation Society. Claiming to be in one of the groups counts for the square root of naff all, too. I could say that I am Gavin, a 20 stone trucker from Wigan, and who would know whether that is true or not? And if it were, I couldn't speak for all Gavins, all truckers or all people from Wigan, whatever their weight.

What is true, however, is that when comparing figures for the numbers of LGBTQ+ young people with figures for LGB 'Boomers' it is completely unremarkable to find that the former is significantly higher than the latter, for all the reasons already stated on this thread. A cynic might think that the 'researchers' had a vested interest in being able to claim to represent a growing number of people, but I couldn't possibly comment on that.

I do love that someone thinks it's OK to equate people's sexuality and gender with the choices people make about the soap they follow. I suppose it shows some sense of values I'm just not sure they are completely acceptable.
I like Eastenders. I'm gay. Now I wonder which one of those a parent would find life changing?

WomblerWombling

^I'm perfectly entitled to mine and you don't get a vote to take it. No one does^
And yet you feel its perfectly OK for the umbrella to be snatched from over the LGBQs, given to the Ts and then give the LGBQs a good kicking for not joining them under the umbrella. YOU might not care which umbrella you choose violetsky but those of us who worked for years to build that umbrella, felt safe and secure beneath it, are gutted and afraid that it's been snatched from over us. You speak of voting? We Ls didn't vote for this. You speak of inclusion? We're more marginalised and afraid now than ever. You think trans people have something in common with LGB? I'm guessing you're not an L.

There was for a long time animosity between gay men and lesbians. They could get into quite heated arguments. It now seems there is animosity between transwomen and lesbians. I would always say that insisting anyone had sex with anyone else is completely wrong. But transwomen are not the whole community. There are transmen as well, are they just to be lumped in with those who promote or advocate forced sex? Because if you condemn the whole trans community you include them. Are you just prepared to shove them out from under your umbrella? What did they do to you?

Well said, WW.

I was taught from a young age to be considerate when dealing with umbrellas. 'You'll have someone's eye out with that' still rings in my ears, and putting them up in a crowded space was considered irresponsible and selfish. It still is, AFAIK.

If GN had a bookie's, I would be rich, as I would have bet a small fortune on you failing to recognise an allegory for what it is. Again, it was ever thus.

Doodledog

Well said, WW.

I was taught from a young age to be considerate when dealing with umbrellas. 'You'll have someone's eye out with that' still rings in my ears, and putting them up in a crowded space was considered irresponsible and selfish. It still is, AFAIK.

You can stand under my umbrella
You can stand under my umbrella, ella, ella, eh, eh, eh