This afternoon in the Commons

There is absolutely no reason to feel sympathy for Truss. Her reckless mini-budget has trashed the UK economy resulting in a falling pound, higher inflation, higher food costs, higher mortgage costs and the likelihood of big cuts to public services and abandoning the state pension triple lock. She has shown herself incompetent and the Tories should depose her immediately. Her constituency party should ditch her for a better candidate next GE.

And in the referendum debate she kept referring to herself as ‘as a mother’. It was the first time I’d been aware of her and I took an instant dislike to her. It was awful what she did to May ( but not unexpected).

Katie59

Traditionally the budget is the policy of the PM and the chancellor with little or no input from others, normally it is costed and reviewed and presented in an orderly way.
To make a big impact on their election T and K decided to release the full details before it was costed, no other MPs knew this was going to happen except possibly a few extreme close supporters.

Sympathy for sacked PMs.
No sympathy for Thatcher her in last term she was ignoring her closest advisors.
Extreme sympathy for May Brexit extremists made life impossible.
No sympathy for Truss, when she goes and she will, it’s all her own fault, others did not sink her she did it all on her own.

I have never forgotten how Angela Leadsom attempted to undermine Theresa May by suggesting that, as she was not a "mother", she had little investment in the future of the country.

The really was below the belt.

Traditionally the budget is the policy of the PM and the chancellor with little or no input from others, normally it is costed and reviewed and presented in an orderly way.
To make a big impact on their election T and K decided to release the full details before it was costed, no other MPs knew this was going to happen except possibly a few extreme close supporters.

Sympathy for sacked PMs.
No sympathy for Thatcher her in last term she was ignoring her closest advisors.
Extreme sympathy for May Brexit extremists made life impossible.
No sympathy for Truss, when she goes and she will, it’s all her own fault, others did not sink her she did it all on her own.

Most people don't have the time to be as interested as we are, but this is quite big, in the scheme of things and fewer people will have missed it.

More people will have taken on board what has happened but not necessarily why. But that would have been the case when we were working, I guess.

And the group that are obsessed with lowering taxes are now furious about her back tracking( eg Redwood). So I guess they were the ones that were happy for this mini budget to be announced. We’ve been saying for along time that the ERG are the ones running this country. Do you think that people will now understand and believe this? And do something about it. As it is we’ve got two years of a party in power with a huge majority that’s literally turning itself apart. No thought whatsoever for the electorate who are just collateral damage. And entering into conspiracy theory territory here how far do we need to go back to find Russian influence involved: certainly pre referendum. We have to change the way our government is run to prevent this ever happening again ( imo)

MayBee70

But why on earth was she allowed to do what she did? How did the party that prides itself on it’s fiscal responsibility let two loose cannons like Truss and Kwarteng trash the economy in one foul swoop and damage their reputation.

The Conservative Party is split into groups: These are some of the main ones.

1. Covid Recovery Group

2. Net Zero Scrutiny Group

3. Common Sense Group

4. Blue Collar Conservatism

5. Northern Research Group

6. All-party group on fair fuel

7. European Research Group

According to the Guardian, well over 100 Conservative MPs have aligned themselves with one or more internal pressure groups.

I'm sorry to keep using the Christians as an example; it is the one most of us know from our history. If you decide being a Catholic, Protestant, or any subdivision of these is excessively important, you are likely to think more about this defined group than Christianity. So much so that this has led to wars and worse, in the past.

This sort of devolvement appears to be what has happened with the Conservatives. They coalesce under the Conservative umbrella, but we do not elect this coalition.

More about the groups here: www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/what-are-the-different-conservative-factions

RichmondPark1

If there were a repeat contest today, members would vote for Rishi Sunak over Liz Truss - by a margin of 60% to 40%.

More than half of Tory members think the PM is doing a bad job.

telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/
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What’s scary about that is that 40% still think she is the best option. Who are these people?

If there were a repeat contest today, members would vote for Rishi Sunak over Liz Truss - by a margin of 60% to 40%.

More than half of Tory members think the PM is doing a bad job.

telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/17/tory-members-would-vote-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-leadership-election/
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The big shock for me is that a few people with intent are free to visit havoc on us. In the back of my mind I believed that there were checks and balances in place to keep a steady rudder and smooth the worst excesses of fools/malicious people.

This clearly isn't the case and now who knows what can happen.

Does it also prove wrong all the allegations of 'The Blob' restricting the progress and freedoms of leaders? Nobody stopped the PM and Chancellor quickly dropping chaos on the country sadly.

Dickens

MayBee70

But why on earth was she allowed to do what she did? How did the party that prides itself on it’s fiscal responsibility let two loose cannons like Truss and Kwarteng trash the economy in one foul swoop and damage their reputation.

Perhaps because Johnson got rid of all those who had a modicum of integrity, intelligence and experience and replaced them with 'yes' men and women with little experience and huge personal ambition?

In other words, those like himself.

Exactly!
It is a sign of weak leadership to surround oneself with people weaker than one’s self in an attempt to “shine”
Boris did exactly that and Truss tried to do the same with Kwarteng and Braverman.
She might have seriously underestimated Mordaunt though and now has to accept an experienced politician ie Hunt.

MayBee70

But why on earth was she allowed to do what she did? How did the party that prides itself on it’s fiscal responsibility let two loose cannons like Truss and Kwarteng trash the economy in one foul swoop and damage their reputation.

Perhaps because Johnson got rid of all those who had a modicum of integrity, intelligence and experience and replaced them with 'yes' men and women with little experience and huge personal ambition?

In other words, those like himself.

But why on earth was she allowed to do what she did? How did the party that prides itself on it’s fiscal responsibility let two loose cannons like Truss and Kwarteng trash the economy in one foul swoop and damage their reputation.

RichmondPark1

Whilst I feel sorry for Mrs Truss in her position today, her humiliation was not caused by Rachel Reeves and her colleagues but is the result of her own poor judgement, errors and failures and those of her colleagues.

Rather than looking forward to the failure of others I hope for a future when good politicians are successful to the benefit of the country.

A very good comment.

Party activists rarely reflect the views of the general membership, or the general public who usually vote for that party.
Truss was elected by activists and wasn’t someone MP’s or the general public wanted. Very similar to Jeremy Corbyn.

Wyllow3 Mon 17-Oct-22 21:31:43

I never thought she was up to it intellectually - the new economic stuff, how much she REALLY UNDERSTOOD. Lulled into over confidence by the closed votes and enthusiasm within the Party

... Lulled into over confidence by the closed votes and enthusiasm within the Party

This - I think - says it all. It explains her heady belief in herself, her rigid refusal to accept that she was, simply, wrong.

What puzzles me greatly is that she unveiled £45bn of tax cuts funded by borrowing - but gave no economic assessment of the plans. How could she not know that the markets would react to that?

MaizieD

I feel desperately sorry for her, too. I felt sorry for May, too, much as I disliked her.

If I were her I'd want to be gone before PMQs on Wednesday.

... glad I'm not alone in feeling sorry for May also. In fact - and I'm going to regret saying this I know - I also felt sorry for Thatcher... that photo' of her shedding a few tears as she was driven away for the last time.

May, Truss and Thatcher I think all believed in their policies and ideology, it was not some huge joke they were indulging in for the LOLS. Unlike Johnson who I don't think gives a stuff one way or the other and is just in the game for whatever glory he thinks he can get out of it.

Going back to the Alastair Campbell interview I listened to yesterday he said that the minute you become PM everyone around you changes how they treat you and they no longer criticise you or give you sensible advise. I’m hoping that he will give a good analysis of what’s happened to Truss in the next podcast.

She achieved the highest office in the land then forgot every principle of government, politics and economics and threw the country under a bus. Never mind Kwarteng he was the architect of the disaster, Truss was too stupid to intervene.

I do use the stupid word knowing it’s the worst description of a political figure possible.

I can't say I have sympathy for her. She is a professional MP, has been doing this job for years, knows exactly what is involved and most importantly fought very hard to get the job. She wanted to be PM and should have had all her policies ready to go, checked and scrutinised by professionals who understood how the economy works. So while I would never say anything nasty about Ms Truss I cannot say I have sympathy for her. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

I do not feel any sympathy for her. I doubt she had any for the many people who were going to suffer hardship from her nasty right wing ideology.

Truss has massive self belief and zero empathy. To her this is a hiccup on the path to the sunny uplands of her skewed ideology. She chucked the chancellor under the bus when just last week she said they were 'lockstepped'. I can't see any reason to feel sorry for her.

Given the two disasters the Conservative Party membership has inflicted on us I regret to say I think a General Election is the only solution however bad the timing is when the country faces such enormous problems. The CP won’t unite behind any of the current mediocre potential leaders and we need clear leadership and some talented problem solvers. Not sure the Labour Party has them either but then what sane person would want to be in frontline politics just now?

Whoops sorry MawtheMerrier, not Monica.

MawtheMerrier

There was a "conspiracy" theory though wasn't there that the party would select someone so inadequate that the country would be begging Boris to come back and "save the day". And there are mutterings of "bring Boris back" aren't there?
Be careful what you wish for.

Mutterings of Boris Johnson returning are being heard only from the deranged though Monica, I haven’t seen or heard anybody sensible saying that as they all consider he’s the architect of our current problems, including the majority of MPs. Even his one woman fan club said it wouldn’t happen.