The Brexit Effect

MY OH runs an MRes course at a Russell Group uni for biochemists to work in industry.

Katie59

Most of our brightest young people go to university with the aim of becoming a “manager” far too few want to become a “worker”. We are desperate for technicians, scientists and engineers, it’s time higher education offered courses that the country needs not what students fancy doing.

Is that your personal theory? It isn’t borne out by the courses on offer in universities? What courses do you see young people doing which indicates they want to become managers - my experience in the NHS indicates that’s the last thing most young professionals want to do because it’s too much hassle for little personal or financial reward. I think we’re more in the era of the specialist, people want niche jobs in their field of choice, and to become experts in that field.

Katie59

Payments are a large part of ALL farmers income, large businesses have large fixed costs, currently it’s the cost of fuel, fertilisers and chemicals thats foremost, along with labour.
We visited a large local veg grower in August on a farm walk where he showed us his new salad growing system. Curious I checked his 2020 accounts on company check, on a turnover of £14m the surplus was less than £50k.

The farmer would be better off selling up and becoming a BTL landlord.

Most of our brightest young people go to university with the aim of becoming a “manager” far too few want to become a “worker”. We are desperate for technicians, scientists and engineers, it’s time higher education offered courses that the country needs not what students fancy doing.

Katie59

Whitewavemark2

I expect someone has already mentioned the fact that the BoE Governor stated that Brexit is a significant factor in slowing growth in the U.K.

Time to join the SM and CU

Hunt just announced abolishing import duty on many products, directly at odds to any Customs Union and may cause issues for export to EU.

He also pointed out that we have a shortage of skilled workers. Nothing to do with brexit of course.

Whitewavemark2

I expect someone has already mentioned the fact that the BoE Governor stated that Brexit is a significant factor in slowing growth in the U.K.

Time to join the SM and CU

Hunt just announced abolishing import duty on many products, directly at odds to any Customs Union and may cause issues for export to EU.

I expect someone has already mentioned the fact that the BoE Governor stated that Brexit is a significant factor in slowing growth in the U.K.

Time to join the SM and CU

^ We are the victims of a conspiracy we've launched against ourselves."^

I think that the word 'conspiracy' is forbidden, as well as the word 'fact', varian....

In today's "i" newspaper there is an excellent arcticle by Ian Dunt entitled "The unmentionable B-word".

He relates how the seldom discussed disadvantages of brexit are grinding down the UK. The trouble for Sunak and Hunt and indeed all of us, is that the benefits of brexit have so far proved illusory, while the disadvantages are grinding this country into the earth. The fall in GDP growth. A fall in European imports. A fall in investment.

Our economic woes cannot be blamed solely on covid and the war in Ukraine - which have also affected other countries.

He finishes by writing "It's only here that we live under the Brexit omerta, unable to speak freely about the cause of our hardship. The problem isn't political. It's not about revenge on Leavers or vindication for Remainers. It is practical. You cannot solve a problem unless you are able to clearly and explicitly evaluate it. And right now we lack the basic ability to do that. So instead we plunge into another period of pain, without the words to even describe why it is happening. We are the victims of a conspiracy we've launched against ourselves."

Payments are a large part of ALL farmers income, large businesses have large fixed costs, currently it’s the cost of fuel, fertilisers and chemicals thats foremost, along with labour.
We visited a large local veg grower in August on a farm walk where he showed us his new salad growing system. Curious I checked his 2020 accounts on company check, on a turnover of £14m the surplus was less than £50k.

although funding has been halved

That's a problem, isn't it, Katie59? The EU farm payments made up an extremely substantial part of smaller farmers' income. They needed it because of the pressure to keep food prices low. Without the payment they would have struggled to exist.

Halving the UK substitute payments seems to be a very shortsighted move, especially in the current climate of very expensive foodstuffs and fertilizers. Is it designed to drive small farmers out of business and to let the huge 'agribusinesses' take over, I wonder.

It is, of course, a typical tory move, take away people's money and they'll become more efficient... I think we're going to see more of that today... (got to or I'd 😭)

I think people can see it was wrong is because it’s now affecting them. Whereas, pre referendum the people that warned against it, not because it would affect them personally ( eg Ireland) but because it would affect other were just classed as project fear.

I think anyone is extreme who believes their view is the only "right" view. Those on the extreme of any view rarely seem to know that is what they are.

Using "lack or education" or "believing the lies" is pejorative and lazy. Such terms are used instead of thinking through what people mean and why they think it.

MaizieD

MerylStreep

halfpint1

I visited Yorkshire just before the referendum and was staggered by the anti Europe rhetoric spouted by my friends

Probably because they understood how bad CAP payments are to farming and how corrupt the whole system is.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590332220303559

I'm sure they were heavily influenced by a paper in Science Direct published 4 years after the referendum.

The EU CAP system is very flexible each nation chooses the options relevant to them, obviously Greece and Italy have different ideas to the UK. Within the UK we had 4 different systems, the Scottish system was straightforward with few problems. Wales and NI also had their own.
England introduced highly complex environmental schemes, at 3 levels, unsurprisingly very few farmers entered them. This was nothing to do with the EU, it was our own DEFRA and Natural England that caused the mess.

The new post Brexit system is much more practical and take up seems fairly good, although funding has been halved

The reason so many can now see that they were wrong to believe the lies told by the Leave campaigners is because all the evidence shows that the country has been damaged by brexit. It was clearly the wrong decision.

This is hardly an extreme position unless you think it is extreme to prefer facts to fiction.

varian

So quite a lot of leave voters now see that they were wrong.

Wrong? Why do you need such extreme language. I certainly didn't like it when we were being told, by the "leave" extremists, that voting remain was wrong.

People have made decisions on the information they believed they could rely on. They have changed that decision as they acquired more and different information from sources, they could believe in.

The "remain" extremists on here still seem affronted by the fact that some did not see them as an acceptable source of information. So, we go back to the insulting idea that those who don't agree are less educated. These different groups - generally but not entirely older, have all lived through their own view of history. It is just as likely that this has set bias in place for each of us.

Just as it is in politics, the extremists - the "I know bests" are a minority at either end of the spectrum. The rest are still questioning and wondering where we go from here. Many of them will not want an 'either or' extreme. Somehow, we have to move forward, and you will never do that without those at and around the middle ground. That is never cut and dried, never easy, but then who told the extremists that life was, or should be, easy for them?

MerylStreep

halfpint1

I visited Yorkshire just before the referendum and was staggered by the anti Europe rhetoric spouted by my friends

Probably because they understood how bad CAP payments are to farming and how corrupt the whole system is.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590332220303559

I'm sure they were heavily influenced by a paper in Science Direct published 4 years after the referendum.

I use “rednecks” loosely, rebellious young often single males ( some females too) who resent authority, Brexit voters not always Tory voters

Katie59

MaizieD

Katie59

Political persuasion played a part, the more right wing voted leave, regardless of age, education etc.

True.

But right wing voters tend to be older, so less likely to have had tertiary education.

Plenty of younger rednecks in the UK.

There aren’t any rednecks in the UK Katie59, rednecks are politically reactionary white Americans.
If you mean young British Tory voters, there aren’t plenty, voting Tory increases with age.
www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/age-and-voting-behaviour-at-the-2019-general-election/

True, but the tipping point was about 45.

MaizieD

Katie59

Political persuasion played a part, the more right wing voted leave, regardless of age, education etc.

True.

But right wing voters tend to be older, so less likely to have had tertiary education.

Plenty of younger rednecks in the UK.

So quite a lot of leave voters now see that they were wrong.

You Gov poll

56% think it was wrong to leave the EU.

varian

There could be many other influences that distorted these folk's view of the EU.

It could also be that some of those who voted to stay in have now become very extreme in their "I was right" feelings. There were arguments for both. People made up their minds on what they knew and what they experienced. Telling them they are poor souls who didn't know any better will probably mean some of those voting to leave don't even want the conversation about going back. Nothing is ever quite so cut and dried as the extremes of an argument make it out to be.

There could be many other influences that distorted these folk's view of the EU.