The Brexit Effect

DaisyAnne

I don't think you can say voting for Truss was about a cult of personality Katie She really hasn't got one.

that made me chuckle!

And she didn't really have much time to develop one either!

Katie59

The Tories have gone too far, in the same way Trump went too far, he ended as a failure, the Tories will end as a failure. The personality cults of Trump and Johnson were fatal, more so for the UK when they elected Truss.

Yesterday, Trump's advisor said he (Trump) would announce next week (on Tuesday I think) that he would be taking another shot at the presidency.

Trump's lawyers also challenged a subpoena from the Congressional committee investigating the January 6 attack on the US Capitol by his supporters. Apparently, he has 'immunity' and therefore will not testify.

I think the divisions in the US are more charged and turbulent (dare I say explosive) than they are here in the UK. We are facing a winter of rebellion, strikes etc - but we don't have the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, America First, and the Three Percenters (whoever they are). There are quite a few right-wing groups, quasi militias - and they are armed. These groups multiplied in number after Obama took office.

Interesting times, but also alarming and frightening. I hope the tide is turning.

I don't think you can say voting for Truss was about a cult of personality Katie She really hasn't got one.

growstuff
However, I do sense the tide is turning. There will always be a hardcore of voters who will be swayed by all the culture war "anti-woke" stuff and some who aren't seriously affected by price rises, but I think the Conservatives have gone too far and have reached a tipping point. I've no doubt there will a few sweeteners in the next year or so, just before the next election, but I can't really see that they can get out of this mess.

Woke is the buzz-word now isn't it, and seems to be included as a pejorative towards anyone who challenges right-wing ideology. It used to be 'bleeding-heart' liberals. I think you're right, the tide is turning. My 'traditional' Conservative-voting friends and acquaintances almost to a man (woman) are among those who've had enough of this post-Brexit government - it isn't just woke lefties - some of them are being hit hard by the failures and incompetence.

The Tories have gone too far, in the same way Trump went too far, he ended as a failure, the Tories will end as a failure. The personality cults of Trump and Johnson were fatal, more so for the UK when they elected Truss.

Spot on Dickens and Katie59.

However, I do sense the tide is turning. There will always be a hardcore of voters who will be swayed by all the culture war "anti-woke" stuff and some who aren't seriously affected by price rises, but I think the Conservatives have gone too far and have reached a tipping point. I've no doubt there will a few sweeteners in the next year or so, just before the next election, but I can't really see that they can get out of this mess.

varian

The right wing politicians everywhere seem to be able to get poor folk to vote for them, voting against their own interests, I think mainly by encouraging them to blame "others" .ie. anyone but the rich right wing politicians and their funders, for all their woes.

It seems that if you throw enough money at clever propagandists and advertisers, votes can be swayed.

It's just the usual 'divide and rule' isn't it really?

Looking at it very simplistically - there are many more very poor / poor / middlin' people... the 'ordinary' folk - than there are very wealthy 'elite'.

If there was cohesion amongst the ordinary people - so great in number - that could pose a real threat to the wealthy minority, the aristocracy, monarchy, those who've accumulated so much wealth that they can buy huge tracts of land and property (the real ultra-wealthy, I'm not talking about the ordinary successful business-man or woman here).

Short of locking themselves in a gated citadel with armoured guards so that the peasants are outside - beyond the pale ('pale' as in wooden structures used historically to fence of the undesirables) - the only thing they can do is to distract us by getting us to blame each other and fight among ourselves.

And this current government, the interface between 'them' and 'us' does a very good job in that respect. As did Cameron and Osborne with their bedroom curtains still drawn to at mid-day rhetoric. Remember that?

Divide and conquer and divide and rule - job done!

The right wing politicians everywhere seem to be able to get poor folk to vote for them, voting against their own interests, I think mainly by encouraging them to blame "others" .ie. anyone but the rich right wing politicians and their funders, for all their woes.

It seems that if you throw enough money at clever propagandists and advertisers, votes can be swayed.

It’s true everywhere, those that have “made it” become very conservative (small C) even in developing countries the relatively well off in cities denigrate the rural poor as being peasants.

MayBee70

One of things that I can never understand is why the people that are set to gain the most from certain political parties vote against them. Eg do Silva took a fifth of the population out of poverty when he was president and yet those very people voted for Bolsanaro next time. And in America the Latino’s are supporting Trump ( along with many people of colour and women).

One explanation:

www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-vote-rising-among-blacks-hispanics-despite-conventional-wisdom-ncna1245787

I think it's true in the UK too. People tend to lump all minorities together as a homogenous, underprivileged group and don't consider that there are tensions between the various minorities.

“And in America the Latino’s are supporting Trump ( along with many people of colour and women).”

Not just the US, many migrants are right leaning, they have usually had to make sacrifices and they want to hold onto what they have. Many are against further immigration as well, Patel and Braverman are good examples of that.

MayBee70

One of things that I can never understand is why the people that are set to gain the most from certain political parties vote against them. Eg do Silva took a fifth of the population out of poverty when he was president and yet those very people voted for Bolsanaro next time. And in America the Latino’s are supporting Trump ( along with many people of colour and women).

Persuasion verging on brain washing Maybe. The people most likely to lose out because of Brexit voted for that too. It was just a vehicle designed to keep the Tory Party together but telling people that was what they were voting for would have lost them the vote; so they lied. I didn't really follow the Brazilian election, but I imagine they did the same.

The US has cheered me a little as some - some never will - actually seem to have turn back towards democracy and away from the "orange Jesus".

Fleurpepper

DaisyAnne

Wetherspoons struggling? They are just about to open a new one in our town.

They are closing about 30- and have already closed dozens.

How strange. Mind you we are special

It was part of the contract with organizations bidding to build/implement projects with EU money that signage about EU funding was prominently displayed. As has been acknowledged on here, in most cases it was.

Trouble is, people didn't take notice or didn't realise what it meant till the funding was no longer available.

The RW press is there to ensure that information is skewed to its own agenda.

One of things that I can never understand is why the people that are set to gain the most from certain political parties vote against them. Eg do Silva took a fifth of the population out of poverty when he was president and yet those very people voted for Bolsanaro next time. And in America the Latino’s are supporting Trump ( along with many people of colour and women).

The UK also received billions in research funding from the EU:

royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/uk-research-and-european-union/role-of-EU-in-funding-UK-research/how-much-funding-does-uk-get-in-comparison-with-other-countries/

We have friends in Sunderland and there are EU signs everywhere pointing out how much the EU contributed to regeneration work. I’m in a Facebook page called blue plaque spotters. I first became aware of how much the EU contributed when I used to go to Ireland and even small communities would have great sports facilities and which were part EU funded.

Iam64

MayBee’s point about EU investment is one rarely made. In other parts of Europe, new bridges, roads, improvements to infrastructure often display a sign to make sure people know it was built with money from the EU.
I’ve never seen that in the uk. In fact most people assumed the improvements to a very deprived area in my town we’re done by our Conservative council. As if.

Strange, because I remember seeing big signs in Manchester about 10 years ago.

MerylStreep

Spain are going to ask Brussels to relax the 90 day rule.

www.gbnews.uk/news/desperate-spain-begs-eu-to-let-british-holidaymakers-stay-indefinitely-in-huge-brexit-blow-for-brussels/385384

The 90 day rule applies to all visitors to EU countries so Brussels will not want to give Spain a formal concession, it doesn’t affect normal tourists or expat residents. Some second home owners want to stay more than 3 months, not just Spain other countries as well, another benefit of Brexit.

Spain are going to ask Brussels to relax the 90 day rule.

www.gbnews.uk/news/desperate-spain-begs-eu-to-let-british-holidaymakers-stay-indefinitely-in-huge-brexit-blow-for-brussels/385384

I think that all the hospitality sector is struggling. They can't get the skilled staff they need.

Not to mention the fact that 'living with covid' means a lot of staff absence...

DaisyAnne

Wetherspoons struggling? They are just about to open a new one in our town.

They are closing about 30- and have already closed dozens.

‘Not the Brexit I wanted’: Next boss calls for more foreign workers in UK

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/10/brexit-next-boss-foreign-workers-uk-lord-wolfson

That is the problem.

In 2016 Remain voters actually knew what they wanted - the status quo.

Leave voters either had no idea what they wanted or they wanted different types of brexit.

What we ended up with was something which only a small minority of voters ever wanted.

Lord Wolfson voted Leave but now accepts that brexit has damaged his business and our economy.

How many other Leave voters have Leavers remorse?

Whitewavemark2

Next CEO

Gets on my nerves!

He was on R4 this morning, moaning about labour shortages and proposing some kind of tax system whereby employers were able to use overseas labour but pay some kind of levy. It is all starting to fall apart,, but none of them will admit it

Wetherspoons struggling? They are just about to open a new one in our town.