The Brexit Effect

varian

We could have saved a lot of money by abolishing general elections and just asking Rupert Murdoch (an Australian) who he wanted to be PM.

Indeed!

What puzzles me is why the ordinary 'man in the street' voter, who like many, struggles from day to day to keep head above water - just about managing - working day in day out, thinks that individuals like Rees-Mogg, Johnson, etc (I use those two as an example because they are the more flamboyant type of politician who manage to somehow engage us) actually have any concept of, or care about, their lives. Many see Johnson as a 'man of the people' - how? How can a man from a privileged background, a man who has on occasions written about the working class as if they are a separate species, be one of them, or us?

Yet the likes of Starmer, even Corbyn, are considered to be Champaine Socialists - 'elites' whose commitment to socialist principles renders them imposters because (presumably) they live in a modest house in a 'nice' neighbourhood.

It doesn't make sense to me.

How has the media managed to convince some / many that those coming from a background of considerable wealth and privilege are the true representatives of the nation, and that the individuals who declare they want a more equitable society for all are their enemies?

To be clear, I'm not a Corbyn fan nor, at the moment, particularly impressed with Starmer though I do think he has a tad more integrity than many (on both sides of the house).

... just rambling a bit here, I guess.

Denying that Brexit has anything to do with falling living standards and crumbling infrastructure is serious delusion.

Of course the likes of Rees-Mogg will never accept responsability. He was never able to find any credible advantage provided by Brexit- same as many here on GN who have been asked, again, and some more, for just 1, or a list- but none has ever appeared. Carney and all financial experts clearly warned that Brexit would cause Sterling to fall, and that it would break the UK financial sector.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/rees-mogg-slams-former-bank-of-england-chief-carney-for-brexit-claim/

I'm just intrigued by this growth stymying protectionism...🤔 I'd love Ug to explain what it means.

It’s a blanket statement, but the “we don’t need foreigners” comment runs through all the reasons for leaving.
As for ties with the Commonwealth, they moved on years ago, trading with their close neighbours

Urmstongran

A blanket statement there Katie.
Yes the world has moved on (it always does). I opted Brexit to open up the UK to ties with say the Commonwealth. Not to be hampered and held back by EU protectionism which stymies growth in Europe.

How is that going then?😄

Well Brexit hasn’t exactly helped growth has it? As for having ties with Commonwealth - what ties? We tried that before, it was called the Empire. How anyone thought we’d be better off out of the biggest free trade organisation on our doorstep still baffles me. Plus all those saying the EU would collapse without the U.K. as everyone was so envious of us- hmm.

Not to be hampered and held back by EU protectionism which stymies growth in Europe.

Would you like to explain what you mean by this, Ug?

A blanket statement there Katie.
Yes the world has moved on (it always does). I opted Brexit to open up the UK to ties with say the Commonwealth. Not to be hampered and held back by EU protectionism which stymies growth in Europe.

There is no mystery what leavers voted for, they voted for history - Great Britain a time where we didn’t need foreigners, or have to obey their rules.
It’s gradually dawning on them the world has moved on, that does not mean there is going to be any changes soon, the current problem is the ERG are running the government.

Never mind the right wing media it’s those right wing Tories that need to be demonized and soon too.

This is so painful to listen to. And worse, it seems some on GN would probably say just the same

fb.watch/gB5avmT5l0/

Of course the Murdoch press is not as far to the right as The Daily Mail, now our best selling "newspaper" although Wikipaedia no longer categorises The Daily Mail as a newspaper because it estimates that at least 70% of its reports are untrue.

Now how do I tell a dear friend of mine this?

The dominant influence of the right wing press has long been a serious problem for the UK.

These newspapers are or have been owned and controlled by tax dodging billionaires, including foreign citizens, like Rupert Murdoch, pornographers like Richard Desmond and tax exiles like the Barclay brothers.

What is good for them is not good for Britain yet they have enormous power to influence the attitudes and voting patterns of their readers.

Margaret Thatcher waived the monopoly rules to allow Rupert Murdoch to own The Times, The Sunday Times, The Sun and The News of The World .

As a result no UK Prime Minister has won a GE without his support since Harold Wilson won in 1974.

We could have saved a lot of money by abolishing general elections and just asking Rupert Murdoch (an Australian) who he wanted to be PM.

Of course the Murdoch press is not as far to the right as The Daily Mail, now our best selling "newspaper" although Wikipaedia no longer categorises The Daily Mail as a newspaper because it estimates that at least 70% of its reports are untrue.

Yet its readers continue to buy it - maybe because they are interested in royalty, or soap stars or pop stars or sports stars or any other so-called "celebs" caught out in scandals and while they are lapping up that lovely gossip their political views are being directed further and further to the right.

Whitewavemark2

I am of the opinion that the line of sufficient people willing to give the SM/CU consideration has been crossed.

The main issue is of course the right wing media.

How do we deal with that?

I haven’t a clue.

I really hope your opinion is right and mine wrong.

The main issue is of course the right wing media.
How do we deal with that?
I haven’t a clue.

Me neither.

Yes, QT was interesting last night Fleurpepper, especially that articulate woman in the audience who listed all the things which has got worse (NHS, education, trade, immigration etc., etc.,) and said that based on the number of U turns which this Tory administration has made, perhaps it is time they U turned on the Single Market. ( Can't remember her exact words, but like most of the audience, I cheered). Even the BBC is beginning to recognise that Brexit is, has been, and will be an unmitigated social and economic disaster.

Did you watch Question Time last night (and last few weeks too). The audience is chosen to represent voting in last election- so Tory supporters are chosen in larger numbers.

Last night, it was so clear that the tide has turned. A Tory weighed audience that burst into loud clapping when a woman asked if it is time to reconsider Brexit. Just amazing.

Over 60% of people now say Brexit was a huge mistake. Most of the rest are 'don't knows'. A tiny proportion of people now have not changed their mind. And for very clear and obvious reasons- Brexit is causing huge damage and massive pain to this amazing country.

That sounds very reasonable Katie59. I'm just not sure everyone cares about whether we eat or can get to work. They were talking about projected job losses for next year this morning. I'm afraid I was doing other things and can't remember the figures. It didn't sound good though.

MaizieD

^the bleak forecast by the BoE that is driving interest rates up^

You've got that the wrong way round, Katie. It's the interest rates that are the cause of the bleak forecast.
The BoE have got a bloody nerve, I think.

Because inflation is caused mainly by high food and fuel prices which consumer have to pay, I think interest rises are unjustified, further increasing the pressure.
If it was run away wage rises maybe it would be reasonable, now we wait on tax rises later this month.

the bleak forecast by the BoE that is driving interest rates up

You've got that the wrong way round, Katie. It's the interest rates that are the cause of the bleak forecast.
The BoE have got a bloody nerve, I think.

CatsCatsCats

Normandygirl
^"Sadly however, along came the pandemic, lockdowns, eye watering furlough payments and distribution of effective vaccines."

As it did for the EU and the world, so can you explain why the UK is now doing so much worse than any other advanced European and world economies?^

Because only we had Liz Truss???

Yes only we had Truss but that catastrophe has passed, now it’s much more the bleak forecast by the BoE that is driving interest rates up

Normandygirl
^"Sadly however, along came the pandemic, lockdowns, eye watering furlough payments and distribution of effective vaccines."

As it did for the EU and the world, so can you explain why the UK is now doing so much worse than any other advanced European and world economies?^

Because only we had Liz Truss???

Whitewavemark2

I am of the opinion that the line of sufficient people willing to give the SM/CU consideration has been crossed.

The main issue is of course the right wing media.

How do we deal with that?

I haven’t a clue.

Any kind of arrangement that means we have to accept EU rules is off the table at present, if/when Labour wins the next GE that may well change.

There is no way a tight wing dominated Tory party is going to accept EU regulation.

The only things we have to show for Brexit are economic and political chaos. Trade has declined massively along with our international reputation. This is a summary of an article from the Daily Telegraph no less, hardly a remoaner paper.

I am of the opinion that the line of sufficient people willing to give the SM/CU consideration has been crossed.

The main issue is of course the right wing media.

How do we deal with that?

I haven’t a clue.

Whitewavemark2

It seems that it is now generally understood that Brexit is a major factor in our economic woes alongside other factors of course.

That is the one factor that we can easily sort, simply by joining the SM and CU.

At a stroke our economy would be put into remedial care and we could look forward to a more sane future,

It seems that it is now generally understood that Brexit is a major factor in our economic woes alongside other factors of course.

It might be generally understood but until it is generally accepted we won't be joining the SM / CU any time soon. I mean - accepted by sufficient numbers of people.

IMO, the pandemic and global energy price hikes plus the war in Ukraine, will continue to be the scapegoats for the failures of Brexit.

During the initial stages of the pandemic when we started to see its effect on other countries, Boris Johnson had the option to delay the negotiations in order to devote time to deal with it. He refused. If he'd not - he would've lost the support of too many Brexit voters who made it quite clear that getting Brexit 'done' was their priority. It is those individuals that have to be persuaded that Brexit is a huge driver in our current economic misery. And frankly, I don't think they will ever agree. These are the mainstay of the current Tory government and it is not going to do anything - like talking about joining the SM - to upset the fine balance in their favour.

It doesn't matter how many former Brexiteers admit it was an economic failure or how many economists give facts and figures, they will either be ignored or brushed off as 'leftie Remoaners' (though I'm always puzzled why Leave voters think all moany Remoaners are left-wing because clearly they aren't!).

The Tory government is dedicated to its own survival, and I think that means it has to support Brexit ideology - regardless, so that is what it will do.