The monarchy

RichmondPark1

Looking at it from the others side, to me it just seems cruel that someone is born to a role and has no choice about it. I looked at Prince's William and George at the funeral and thought, you poor little toads, that's your future that is and there's nothing you can do about it. I can't think that this situation occurs in any other area of modern life.

All the bowing and scraping, the crown jewels of dubious origin, the knights of the garter fancy dress and the walking in order of importance rules make me realise how big a part the royal family have in perpetuating our crippling class system.

I really admire Prince Charles for what he has achieved for the environment but unless the monarchy regains some really useful role in government, in my opinion, it has had its day.

With regard to alternatives, Europe is full of countries demonstrating other ways.

Good post RP

Yes good post RP

Looking forward to interesting discussions from intellengent Gransnetters after all it is a news and politics thread and at the top of our political system is Charles king a Head of State.

I will add news tip bits that come apon

Looking at the shambles that is going on in Westminster at the moment I am glad we have a monarchy.

They are not all perfect - nobody is but they have a sense of duty and dedication that is lacking in our elected leaders.

I don’t include Prince Andrew. They’ve dealt with him!

merlotgran

Looking at the shambles that is going on in Westminster at the moment I am glad we have a monarchy.

They are not all perfect - nobody is but they have a sense of duty and dedication that is lacking in our elected leaders.

I don’t include Prince Andrew. They’ve dealt with him!

There would be no shambles in Westminster if we didn't have a monarchy

Would the HoS Role be separate to the Government or incorporated as in America?

I’d find it interesting if you could give a picture of what the new constitution would look like in practice, how elections would be held, what powers an elected HoS would have etc.

I don’t really have much faith in ideologies. I always want to know how would this work.
Taking into account human nature?

I know nothing about the Mountbatten 'scandal' but if the victims are still alive it doesn't matter if the perpetrator is dead, does it/

I think the pomp and privilege is less and less appropriate as time moves on.

I'd be happy to see it done away with.

Grany

merlotgran

Looking at the shambles that is going on in Westminster at the moment I am glad we have a monarchy.

They are not all perfect - nobody is but they have a sense of duty and dedication that is lacking in our elected leaders.

I don’t include Prince Andrew. They’ve dealt with him!

There would be no shambles in Westminster if we didn't have a monarchy

That is a ridiculous claim Grany. There are just as likely to be major political furores in republics, just look at Italy, USA and numerous others.

MissAdventure

I think the pomp and privilege is less and less appropriate as time moves on.

I'd be happy to see it done away with.

I think Charles is trying to find the right balance. There will always be privilege, no matter who’s in power.

Yes, I'm sure there will be, but they are on the "extreme" edge.

If we studied closely from where they came I doubt we would be treating them as they are treated now.

Casdon

Grany

merlotgran

Looking at the shambles that is going on in Westminster at the moment I am glad we have a monarchy.

They are not all perfect - nobody is but they have a sense of duty and dedication that is lacking in our elected leaders.

I don’t include Prince Andrew. They’ve dealt with him!

There would be no shambles in Westminster if we didn't have a monarchy

That is a ridiculous claim Grany. There are just as likely to be major political furores in republics, just look at Italy, USA and numerous others.

A president would step in if the laws of our constitution were being broken as in this Tory government or anyother government.

Our president would be a parliamentary Head of State with a newly written constitution. Similar to Irelands president model.

Not like in USA where the president has power

Grany

Casdon

Grany

merlotgran

Looking at the shambles that is going on in Westminster at the moment I am glad we have a monarchy.

They are not all perfect - nobody is but they have a sense of duty and dedication that is lacking in our elected leaders.

I don’t include Prince Andrew. They’ve dealt with him!

There would be no shambles in Westminster if we didn't have a monarchy

That is a ridiculous claim Grany. There are just as likely to be major political furores in republics, just look at Italy, USA and numerous others.

A president would step in if the laws of our constitution were being broken as in this Tory government or anyother government.

Our president would be a parliamentary Head of State with a newly written constitution. Similar to Irelands president model.

Not like in USA where the president has power

You don’t know what type of republic there would be in the UK Grany. Nor does a model like there is in Ireland prevent the risk of parliamentary disarray, or guarantee the supremacy of the president. If you stopped pretending that a republic would be Shangri-La more people might listen.

We know what republic it would be because the best model for our country would be a parliamentary Head of State Taking what we have and making it democratic A president doing what the King can't do. Upholding our new written constitution he can step in if the PM breaks the laws of our constitution.

No, Grany we don’t know. There has been no formal discussion at all, what you describe is assumption.

Lathyrus

Would the HoS Role be separate to the Government or incorporated as in America?

I’d find it interesting if you could give a picture of what the new constitution would look like in practice, how elections would be held, what powers an elected HoS would have etc.

I don’t really have much faith in ideologies. I always want to know how would this work.
Taking into account human nature?

The HoS role would be separate from government.

A new written constitution that sets out what power each part of the political system has.

The people would elect a new president.

Elect an independent, non-political head of state who can act as referee and defender of the constitution.

The kind of head of state that is best for Britain is a 'ceremonial' or 'constitutional' position, someone chosen by the people to:

.represent the nation
.defend our democracy
.act as referee in the political process
.offer a non-political voice at times of crisis and celebration

The job would not simply be ceremonial, our new head of state would have very clear and limited powers.

Meet other Heads of State and Receive Heads of State.

One Official Residence and an office.

A fully elected upper house

Unfortunately human nature makes a mess of whatever it has a hand in ,
Power Corrupts , absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely

A republic wouldn't be Shangri-La. Look at the US; the attempted coup in Jan 6th last year. And if you're Googling, also Google the Thai monarchy, see what happened there recently.

No governance system is foolproof. But the system I favour is one where we can remove a HoS from office if they turn out to be a stinker. Where the HoS isn't the HoG, but an additional, effective and integral part of how this country is run. And where they actually do some work for us, rather than expecting us to be grateful for a wave and their gracious presence at the village fete. They are at the apex of the class system in this country, and I feel we need to fix that dysfunctional part of our society.

As for all the questions about how it would work, here's the thing; we get to decide. Not a 1,000 year old tradition that makes us look and feel like a medieval fiefdom, but we decide, here in the 21st century. And despite all the chaos we have at the moment in Parliament, it's better that we decide rather than just having to put up with what we're given. I am incredulous that people think we shouldn't rock the boat because we can't be trusted with any additional democracy.

We were only one polo accident away from King Andrew, remember.

A couple more questions, if people don’t mind.

How would an elected President step in if they believed a Government was acting against the Constitution. I mean exactly would they have the power to do?

If they had the power (like Charles l) to close Parliament how would a President be stopped from taking power.

Which leads me onto what process would there be to remove a President who was abusing their position?

I am interested in how a Republic would work, not just having an argument ?

A Scot, Irish, English , Welsh President?

Anniebach

A Scot, Irish, English , Welsh President?

A British one.

Who will be Scot, Irish, English or Welsh

Lathyrus

A couple more questions, if people don’t mind.

How would an elected President step in if they believed a Government was acting against the Constitution. I mean exactly would they have the power to do?

If they had the power (like Charles l) to close Parliament how would a President be stopped from taking power.

Which leads me onto what process would there be to remove a President who was abusing their position?

I am interested in how a Republic would work, not just having an argument ?

He would have a word with PM ask him to resign.

In a written constitution a president would have limited powers so could not take over.

If a president not up to the job he can be removed from office.

Lathyrus

A couple more questions, if people don’t mind.

How would an elected President step in if they believed a Government was acting against the Constitution. I mean exactly would they have the power to do?

If they had the power (like Charles l) to close Parliament how would a President be stopped from taking power.

Which leads me onto what process would there be to remove a President who was abusing their position?

I am interested in how a Republic would work, not just having an argument ?

I don't think it helps to compare a modern democracy with how things panned out in the 17th century. I also don't think we can draft a whole new constitution on Gransnet .

Anyway. There's no belief about it. If we have a proper constitution that defines what the roles and responsibilities of a government are, the any HoS would be able to identify when the "rules" have been broken, or are in danger of being broken. That doesn't mean they "take power", it means they use the authority our constitution gives them to ensure Parliament is sovereign; not that a PM and their buddies thinks they can change the rules about when Parliament sits to suit themselves, or that a government can enforce policies that haven't been voted for in a manifesto.

They can be removed from power because they have a fixed term of office and so get to vote for them. If they are corrupt and line their own pockets, vote them out. If they end up being in cahoots with the PM of the day and undermining the stability of this nation, vote them out next time round.

As opposed to having a family we venerate because of who their ancestors are, who will do nothing to prevent the above things happening and line their own pockets because we think its only right that they have nice things.