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There are many people in this country who think we should be a republic. Not everybody, granted, not even a majority of people. And there are lots of things for us to worry about right now. However that doesn’t mean we need to stop talking about it.
Having a monarch means that some person gets that job just because of who their mum/dad was. Most people seem happy for that to continue. But I think that some people who espouse that maybe don’t understand that it's not just that we want to have an election every few years to replace the King with another person, it's that we want a more modern and representative governance system for this country.
A HoS isn’t about just sitting in a gold coach or waving on the way to open the latest community centre. It's not about being the figurehead for a charity they have decided to support – they can do that as much as they like. But what they can’t (won’t?) do at the moment is intervene to prevent the government breaking the rules they were elected to uphold. Governments can lie to the Queen, try to impose policies that fewer than 1% of the country have voted for or approved, and try to change the rules of Parliament to suit themselves and their supporters. (Owen Patterson). And the King does nothing about it. Whether that’s by law or by precedent, I don’t know. But there are things above politics that need to be controlled, otherwise we end up being an out-of-control kleptocracy.
Now people can pop up and say we’ve had this for hundreds of years and its always worked. To those people I say – have you read the news lately? People can tell us how much tourism income they bring. Well, they bring about as much as we spend on them, and an ROI of 1 isn’t that great in business. They bring joy to people? So does Strictly. If we can get an inherited HoS to do all those things, then stick with it. But any move at all to protect the people of this country is seen as "interfering in politics". The King can't even go to COP27.
In my view, we need to grow up as a country. I’m sure others will differ.
There are repeated references throughout this thread to "despicable" Heads of State. eg Putin, Mugabe, Trump, etc, but every one of the examples quoted are Political heads of government. The HoS that most republicans propose would be Non Political so that comparison seems pointless.
Can anyone name a non political HoS whom they consider deplorable?
Oh I don't know. We're stuck with both. ?
Your really stuffed if you support the monarchy and voted for Brexit, aren’t you. ?
Yes Volver dear. We know when you’re not happy. ?
One person said she though republicans were better educated. Others immediately disagreed with her.
Yet others are playing at being martyrs.
Geez there’s some snobs around on this thread. Makes me want to turn into a monarchist.
Thank you Prentice.
It’s quite obvious on here who thinks they are the arbiters of better educated. Doesn’t mean they’re any more correct than I would be if I said republicans appear to be less well educated, but it keeps them happy.
So sorry your majesties for not following your rules re punctuation. I thought posters only did that on the Pedant thread.
Mollygo
Supporters of republicanism impress me as better educated than monarchists. I am a monarchist insofar as at least a Windsor monarch will be more decent than the dictators we know of.
Better educated people? ????
No proof, and comments like that, made by several posters on here, are certainly not examples of better manners, or don’t republicans value good manners?
Yes Mollygo I agree with you that the quoted words are ridiculous, as who is to decide who is the better educated?Who can even know?
Education and intelligence aside, because they do not enter into this matter, monarchists and republicans will never agree.
They have decided for themselves which side of the fence to sit on.
Casdon ?
volver
^its just not worth wasting energy over^
Dismissing something people have sincere misgivings about as "not worth wasting energy over" is very dismissive and very unlike you Casdon
I didn’t word that well, I should have said I’ve decided it’s not worth me wasting my energy over volver, sorry - I just can’t get steamed up one way or another.
Mollygo Your posts would be much easier to read, and have more impact, if you adopted the Gransnet convention and used italics for quotations, thus:
Supporters of republicanism impress me as better educated than monarchists. I am a monarchist insofar as at least a Windsor monarch will be more decent than the dictators we know of.
Or even quotation marks, as I did above. That would help.
Supporters of republicanism impress me as better educated than monarchists. I am a monarchist insofar as at least a Windsor monarch will be more decent than the dictators we know of.
Better educated people? ????
No proof, and comments like that, made by several posters on here, are certainly not examples of better manners, or don’t republicans value good manners?
what can you even spend 20m a year on? it's an incredibly vulgar amount of money when social care isn't even funded properly
I don't think it's a "dazzling endorsement". It's just a little better than a theocrat or mafia stuyle dictator .
Also I am enchanted by the Windsor circus, especially the horses,I confess
Caleo
Volver you slightly misprepresented me. I said Brexit was supported by under-educated voters. Lack of education is a direct cause of gullibility and deference to authority or superficial charisma.
Supporters of republicanism impress me as better educated than monarchists. I am a monarchist insofar as at least a Windsor monarch will be more decent than the dictators we know of.
As I've said before, thinking somebody is good because at least they're better than Khanenei/Putin etc is not the dazzling endorsement you think it is.
Right, so William is worth £20m.
Hmm...I wonder how?
No good change ever came about by those who wanted it doing nothing. It's not a waste of energy.
Volver you slightly misprepresented me. I said Brexit was supported by under-educated voters. Lack of education is a direct cause of gullibility and deference to authority or superficial charisma.
Supporters of republicanism impress me as better educated than monarchists. I am a monarchist insofar as at least a Windsor monarch will be more decent than the dictators we know of.
its just not worth wasting energy over
Dismissing something people have sincere misgivings about as "not worth wasting energy over" is very dismissive and very unlike you Casdon
That William gets whatever you say he gets, for whatever he does.
OK If you say so.
I can’t admit that something that doesn’t exist is better than something that exists, just on the say-so of other people.
Are we allowed to choose whether we contribute to the upkeep of a HoS that we haven’t voted for or don’t particularly want any more than republicans have a choice about contributing in whatever way we do to the RF.
Why do republicans feel one choice should be allowed but not the other?
nadateturbe
nadateturbe
^What about William gets over £20 million
Like winning the lottery every year^
Any comments from monarchists?No? Thought so.
The answer from monarchists will clearly be ‘So what, he’s worth it’ nadeturbe. Your ‘blindly obvious’ is somebody else’s ‘I don’t care.’ There isn’t a right or wrong, just different options about the same issue. And - nobody is budging, on either side. That’s why I’m ambivalent, it’s just not worth wasting energy over and there are far more important things going on at home, and in the world at the moment.
but starting a thread called The Monarchy and just talking about republics is weird.
The OP is almost exclusively about the role of the King and the Royal Family.
We're not talking about other GNetters.
I would like monarchists to admit what is blindingly obvious.
What would you like people to say?
I’ve no idea what other GN earn, or whether they’re worth what they’re paid.
I’ve no idea how many GN have inherited wealth, no matter on what scale, or get paid out of my taxes whether I like it or not?
Am we allowed to choose whether we contribute to the upkeep of of a HoS that I haven’t voted for or don’t particularly want any more than republicans have a choice about contributing in whatever way we do to the RF.
Why do they feel one choice should be allowed but not the other?
I don’t see why republicans (of which republic?) shouldn’t argue that the UK or bits of it ought to be a republic, but starting a thread called The Monarchy and just talking about republics is weird.
nadateturbe
^What about William gets over £20 million
Like winning the lottery every year^
Any comments from monarchists?
No? Thought so.
grannyro
I just find the alternative to the Royal Family awful, If we had no Royalty would Boris have been our President? Or Liz Truss? I know Royalty have no real clout but they do indeed give a view to the rest of the world that is admired and does definitely bring in tourism. How can you admire a country that has someone like Trump as their figurehead?
Zelensky is an elected President. I quite admire him and his country.
Not that that's relevant at all, but we only ever get negative examples of presidents. About time we had some positive ones.
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