Feeling strangely, quietly, a little bit optimistic

Going to have to think about that. Thanks growstuff.

Katie59

Science and. Economics are pretty progressive and predictable. Politics is not and many/most national decisions are made for political reasons

I agree.

It's not all models. Economists look to experience too. They know that some experiments have failed. Money doesn't exist in a vacuum and many politicians fail to take into account (or don't care about) unintended consequences.

King was a follower of Milton Friedman's principles and believed that businesses should be allowed to fail. That's why he refused to bail out Northern Rock. He believed that the state shouldn't interfere in a "natural" business failure. He failed to take into account the savings which would be wiped out and the knock-on effect of a major bank failure. Politicians should be taking a broader view and should not allow economists to have the final say.

Maybe an analogy would be nuclear power. Atomic research has produced many benefits for society, but it has also resulted in horrors. That doesn't mean that the original researchers were wrong. They were pure scientists, operating in a theoretical context. They cannot be held responsible for the uses of the theory - politicians can.

I've said a few times that I'm a complete novice about economics. This is my view though.

If you put an input into a system in science, you pretty much know for sure what's coming out the other end. Or if you don't, you can say "We don't know what's going to happen. So that's interesting, let's do some observation and find out."

Whereas with Economics, it's all models. QE might lead to this, or it might lead to the exact opposite. Trickledown economics is a thing; no it isn't. Anything could happen. But we'll put people in charge of the economy who have a pet theory and won't be swayed.

That's how it looks to a novice

Science and. Economics are pretty progressive and predictable. Politics is not and many/most national decisions are made for political reasons

Prentice

The former Bank of England Governor, that should read.
I have no intention of more involvement on this subject, but did think that for those truly interested in economics who themselves are not experts, his words about QE and what has happened with inflation is something to chew over.

No harm in chewing! But no need to swallow!

I'm a scientist. (Up to you whether you believe me or not)

One of the main pillars of science is not to think somebody is bound to be right just because of the position they hold.

I'm sure it's true of economics as well.

volver anyone can make the claim they are an expert on any subject on a forum.The beauty or the curse of the Internet.

The former Bank of England Governor, that should read.
I have no intention of more involvement on this subject, but did think that for those truly interested in economics who themselves are not experts, his words about QE and what has happened with inflation is something to chew over.

I suspect nobody on this thread does.

ooohh I'd be careful making that statement...

I do not have an expert background in economics and I suspect nobody on this thread does.
I listen and I read to what anyone with a true background in the subject says.The former Bank of England is one such.
To those who set themselves up on forums as experts I do hope that nobody really regards them as such, because their comments can be misleading.
QE is used as a tool in conjunction with many other strategies.

Thank you so much!

growstuff - for you ?

Oh dear!

(Finds a brick wall and starts bashing head against it.)

I agree with HPL, good to have someone who intends to get our economy on track. All the help in the Pandemic needs to be paid for, look at like managing any business or home, what comes in goes out, pay out more than is coming in is disaster. You can’t just print money, that’s ridiculous.I really think a lot if things need rethinking, this £500 winter payment for everyone regardless of wealth is not on. Means testing are dirty words I know but it needs to be fair as does benefits. I think Sunak is most likely our only hope at the moment, I’m fed up with characters and fireworks, just run the country so we are not bankrupt and the people that are the backbone of it who cannot manage with both working full time are paid a decent wage. It’s awful that hardworking NHS staff have to use food banks and what about the people serving us in the shops, they can’t manage, no the sooner it’s sorted and fairer the better.

Don't hold your breath Maizie!

Prentice

growstuff

By the way, Mervyn King didn't just say there had much QE. I looked up the interview and he said that there needs to be more taxation and the government is lying if it denies that. He said that QE in itself isn't the cure for all the country's economic woes. In the interview, he seems to be saying that he would have let the economy contract during the pandemic rather than prop it up with QE. I wonder how politically acceptable people would have found that! They certainly wouldn't be able to claim that Sunak had somehow "saved" the economy at the time.

I know that he did not just say there had been too much QE, there is much of interest in his interview.Did you see him on Sunday on the LK programme?
However he did say there had been too much QE not the necessary helping during the pandemic but after that which was needless.Printing money alone is not the way out of economic woes.
It seems that you are not interested in what Mervyn King has to say for some reason.That is ok, plenty of people are though.

Errrmmm ... there's nothing wrong with my comprehension
skills!

You might want to review your communications skills because this sentence doesn't make much sense: "However he did say there had been too much QE not the necessary helping during the pandemic but after that which was needless."

However he did say there had been too much QE not the necessary helping during the pandemic but after that which was needless.

I've looked up the Bloomberg account of the interview and he did say there was too much QE during the pandemic. How on earth he expected people to survive on no incoming wages at that time is a mystery to me.

He's still peddling the 'taxation funds public spending' myth. He's advocating higher taxes for the wealthy but saying that wouldn't be enough to fund the necessary public spending. Even though he thinks that public spending is necessary. A bit muddled, really.

Perhaps,Prentice you'd care to explain why you think that 'printing money' is wrong, in light of the fact that that is what all banks do when they make loans to businesses or individuals. And why it isn't 'the way out of economic woes' Just asserting it doesn't make it true.

How would you get more money into the economy?

DaisyAnne it is frightening indeed.

It does not help for “yesterdays men or women” to say with 20-20 hindsight what should have been done.

It’s up to the polititians of the day to act in the countries best interests

growstuff

By the way, Mervyn King didn't just say there had much QE. I looked up the interview and he said that there needs to be more taxation and the government is lying if it denies that. He said that QE in itself isn't the cure for all the country's economic woes. In the interview, he seems to be saying that he would have let the economy contract during the pandemic rather than prop it up with QE. I wonder how politically acceptable people would have found that! They certainly wouldn't be able to claim that Sunak had somehow "saved" the economy at the time.

I know that he did not just say there had been too much QE, there is much of interest in his interview.Did you see him on Sunday on the LK programme?
However he did say there had been too much QE not the necessary helping during the pandemic but after that which was needless.Printing money alone is not the way out of economic woes.
It seems that you are not interested in what Mervyn King has to say for some reason.That is ok, plenty of people are though.

Franbern

Ilovecats2

Lets get a few things straight Trump is a good guy and not the bad guy the MSM paints him to be. If it wasn't for him we would be in permanant lock down now, or in fema camps or dead, and they would have had mandates to force us to have the jab. Biden and the democrats work for the deep state and they want to depopulate the world. Trump and his team are fighting for our freedom. Putin is also not the bad guy he is painted. He went into Ukraine to get rid of the Bio labs there as they were working on bio weapons to use on humanity. He also went in to end the child traffiking that is going on there and has freed many children. I have friends in Ukraine and the USA and things are not as they are portrayed in the news. Trump is hated by the deep state as he is standing in their way and stopping them destroy the world so they are constantly telling lies about Trump. The truth will soon come out and you will be thankful for what Trump and his team has done for you. Stop watching the MSM as its just a propaganda machine owned by the deep state.

And there you have it folks - Qanon conspiracy theories in action. Along with the British Royal Family are all actually green Lizards, etc. etc.

If it was not so dangerous it could be funny!!!

The horror is people really believe this.

By the way, Mervyn King didn't just say there had much QE. I looked up the interview and he said that there needs to be more taxation and the government is lying if it denies that. He said that QE in itself isn't the cure for all the country's economic woes. In the interview, he seems to be saying that he would have let the economy contract during the pandemic rather than prop it up with QE. I wonder how politically acceptable people would have found that! They certainly wouldn't be able to claim that Sunak had somehow "saved" the economy at the time.

Prentice

growstuff perhaps you could have a conversation with Mervyn King about it.

Why would I want to?

Incidentally, in the past I've had a face-to-face conversation with Andy Haldane, the BoE's former Chief Economist, which was very interesting.

Not interested in Mervyn King's economics, Prentice.

If he thinks that the UK's current inflation can be remedied by raising interest rates he's way out. That only works when there is too much money in the economy. Despite his dislike of QE, there isn't too much money. Just too much of the QE went to people who didn't need it, they just used it to speculate or save in tax havens... It wasn't used in the economy, which is where it is needed right now.