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Braverman's behaviour in parliament today proves nothing has changed.

(337 Posts)
Normandygirl Wed 26-Oct-22 22:14:18

Suella Braverman scuttling out of the commons today to avoid scrutiny is a clear indication that nothing has changed with the Tories. The question from Yvette Cooper was tabled in plenty of time so she has no excuses. The fact that she walked out in full view of the speaker doesn't enhance his reputation either.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Oct-22 12:44:34

winterwhite

Hope this hasn't already been covered but I'm puzzled by the fact that at the time of SB's resignation pundits said that the email business was minor and not normally a resigning issue, and the real bone of contention between her and LT was Rwanda and not allowing immigrants to work. Now with her reappointment she is suddenly the wicked with of the west.

Her policies are certainly unpleasant. And Sunak made a mistake in appointing her. Let's hope he moves her at the first reasonable opportunity.

What has happened is that we are being informed of much more serious security breaches

winterwhite Thu 27-Oct-22 12:34:05

Hope this hasn't already been covered but I'm puzzled by the fact that at the time of SB's resignation pundits said that the email business was minor and not normally a resigning issue, and the real bone of contention between her and LT was Rwanda and not allowing immigrants to work. Now with her reappointment she is suddenly the wicked with of the west.

Her policies are certainly unpleasant. And Sunak made a mistake in appointing her. Let's hope he moves her at the first reasonable opportunity.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Oct-22 12:21:01

MayBee70

Have just read that MI5 have had concerns over her for a long time.

Fascists should be of concern to our security service. So many people lost their lives fighting them during the last century.

Katie59 Thu 27-Oct-22 12:07:45

I was really surprised that Sunak included so many of Truss’s cabinet, particularly Braverman who is a loose cannon at best. It seems there won’t be a honeymoon period for this government, one good indicator at least sterling has had modest gains this week.

MayBee70 Thu 27-Oct-22 11:46:22

Have just read that MI5 have had concerns over her for a long time.

Fleurpepper Thu 27-Oct-22 11:30:45

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

I think this is it. And it is seriously worrying. The previous Cabinet was almost, if not totally, made up of ERG members.

It is time we seriously question who they are, what their true aims are, and insist on a full, open, declared list. Please write to the Leaders of your Party to ensure this is all declared officially. We cannot have the ERG tail wagging the dog- especially as we know the links they have to the Press, big business, the City, and so much more.

MayBee70 Thu 27-Oct-22 11:08:11

From The Guardian 2021

MayBee70 Thu 27-Oct-22 11:07:52

British ministers and officials have approved the sale of arms to nearly four-fifths of countries subject to arms embargos, trade sanctions or other restrictions over the past five years, according to analysis.

The UK has exported military hardware to 58 countries of the 73 listed as subject to restrictions by the Department for International Trade (DIT), including sniper rifles to Pakistan, assault rifles to Kenya and naval equipment to China.

The exports are legal but researchers with the group that compiled the report, Action on Armed Violence, said they represented “a systemic failure to consider the human rights record of states before exporting weapons to them”.

Countries covered by sanctions range from a handful where all arms sales are banned to a larger group covered by transit controls, where a special licence is required, for political, security or human rights reasons.

Five countries listed by the trade department as key export markets for British arms makers: Bahrain, Bangladesh, Colombia, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, also feature on the Foreign Office’s latest list of 30 “human rights priority countries”, although not all are subject to sanctions.

Andrew Smith, spokesperson for Campaign Against Arms Trade
Britain boosts arms sales to repressive regimes by £1bn
Read more
The report’s author, Murray Jones, of Action on Armed Violence, said his research – which reviewed UK export records between January 2015 and June 2020 – “demonstrates the frailty of the UK’s commitment to human rights abroad”.

MayBee70 Thu 27-Oct-22 11:03:59

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

Our armaments are currently enabling the remaining Ukrainian population/army to stop the Russians overrunning their Country.

I abhor war, we have seen our AC in the most unspeakable circumstances in wars overseas. You cannot just have the bad guys having access to weaponry, and no country is going to voluntarily unilaterally disarm.

I think we’re, quite rightly, giving arm to Ukraine. We sell them to other countries. It was one of the things that made our country rich I would imagine.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Oct-22 11:02:07

No gg13 tbh honest I haven’t been reading your posts as I thought you were interested about Albanian gangs etc, and that isn’t something I am interested in. So I am sorry if I’ve inadvertently muddled things.

Yes, I am also interested in the facts and transparency. It would help of course if Sunak made public Simon Cases opinion about the reinstatement of Braverman.

Interested to hear Chris Bryant describe the way Putin targets individual MPs. Braverman’s past record as a security risk + MI5 investigation should ensure that she never has access to secret documents.

DaisyAnne Thu 27-Oct-22 10:58:27

Who do you see as defending her Whitewavemark2?

GrannyGravy13 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:55:07

Whitewavemark2

For those defending Braverman, I would just ask what people think should happen if a civil servant did the same thing?

Would an apology and promise to do better next time do it?

I hope you do not think I am defending Ms. Braverman? I would just like to know the facts, not here say.

I am on Granny duty all this week and only popping in and out of news/current affairs in between CBeeBees, UTube and Halloween films, (teenagers overnight who are still asleep upstairs hence I am trying to catch up)

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:50:15

For those defending Braverman, I would just ask what people think should happen if a civil servant did the same thing?

Would an apology and promise to do better next time do it?

GrannyGravy13 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:46:45

volver I am definitely not in favour of flying people to Rwanda.

I do think that the media focusing on how much immigrants cost per day and how this money could be better used on our own people has focused some sections of the U.K. firmly against the boat people

The constant vox pops seem in favour of a firm Home Secretary.

I am in favour of a firm but fair Home Secretary who can lay her plan before parliament. (no idea what Ms, Braverman’s plan is other than Rwanda, have I missed it?)

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:39:32

The Braverman issue is highlighting the division in the Tory party. Unity didn’t last long did it?

volver Thu 27-Oct-22 10:39:05

GrannyGravy13

volver I do not give a flying fig if it’s a teenager or a burly man with a beard I personally do not want to find them in or on my property.

Regardless of their ethnicity or country of origin it is a fact that some of the immigrants are of the criminal fraternity.

What we need is an effective screening process, if they are a badden then straight home.

(Totally off course but there is a case in Liverpool, just made public by the courts/police were an Afghan immigrant claiming to be 16 raped a female, it has been proven that he is in fact 21, so the full force of the law can be used)

My point is GG13, that the language we usen about anybody gives us an image of them. The way that the intrusion was described in your original post would make a reader think certain things about him, which weren't true. And that contributes to the perception of "immigrants"
Some immigrants are of the criminal fraternity. So are some British people who were born here and have lived here for decades.

What we need is an effective screening process, if they are a badden then straight home.

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. If only we had a Home Secretary and Government who would make that happen instead of wittering on about Rwanda flights.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:37:35

Whitewavemark2

Her security breaches were multiple and serious.

This government must hold her to account.

If this isn’t sorted, how on earth can we as voters trust or respect anything they do?

Has there been a verified account of Ms. Braverman’s breach’s of security, other than what was in her resignation letter.

Or is it all he said/she said?

MerylStreep Thu 27-Oct-22 10:34:08

MayBee70
Climate change is just as big a cause of migration as wars are.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:30:25

Her security breaches were multiple and serious.

This government must hold her to account.

If this isn’t sorted, how on earth can we as voters trust or respect anything they do?

Normandygirl Thu 27-Oct-22 10:29:34

DaisyAnne

I could take offence about you not having read my previous posts at this point Normandygirl.

He will have known exactly what backlash (give or take a bit) there would be. There are a couple of reasons why he did it. They are not "good" reasons, but they are excellent political reasons, and all parties indulge in those and have to bear with looking stupid for a while.

The first was the need to get elected. To do this he needed to not have an election and it not to go to the members. The ERG Three will have promised not only their own votes but those of their 'fellow travellers'. Otherwise they would have voted with whoever was nearest to 100 votes and driven it to and election.

The second is that she is actually providing and amazing smoke screen. I bet he is greatful to be able to get on with the work he needs to do. While you (and the press) are attacking her they are attacking him less.

I don't think it is as bad as Johnson and Truss as I (personally) wonder about Johnson's mental health or mental condition and Truss's ability. It's a very small step in the way forward but it could be one we have to go through.

Daisyanne. Sorry,I skipped all the nonsense about Albanian gangs and unfortunately missed your post
I have to disagree about Braverman being a "smokescreen" though, as we have the emerging story of Adam Smith and Hunt rearing it head again. That's the two most senior cabinet ministers appointments being questioned now, and with it Sunak's judgement. When the press and public get their teeth into a perceived wrongdoing of any minister, the PM's response to it comes under extreme criticism and scrutiny, rendering them unable to "get on with the work they need to do"
Many PM's have been brought down by the misdemeanours of their chosen ministers. It remains to be seen if Sunak words of "integrity and responsibility" were empty rhetoric or not.

westendgirl Thu 27-Oct-22 10:27:41

It's like action replay seeing ministers being sent out to defend the actions of the P.M.Ring any bells ?
Isn't it evident that Braverman was slotted back in to get the support of the far right wing, after making a deal.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:23:29

MayBee70

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

Our armaments are currently enabling the remaining Ukrainian population/army to stop the Russians overrunning their Country.

I abhor war, we have seen our AC in the most unspeakable circumstances in wars overseas. You cannot just have the bad guys having access to weaponry, and no country is going to voluntarily unilaterally disarm.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:20:16

MayBee70

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

Is there a war in Albania?

MayBee70 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:19:12

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 27-Oct-22 10:16:28

volver I do not give a flying fig if it’s a teenager or a burly man with a beard I personally do not want to find them in or on my property.

Regardless of their ethnicity or country of origin it is a fact that some of the immigrants are of the criminal fraternity.

What we need is an effective screening process, if they are a badden then straight home.

(Totally off course but there is a case in Liverpool, just made public by the courts/police were an Afghan immigrant claiming to be 16 raped a female, it has been proven that he is in fact 21, so the full force of the law can be used)