Nurses Strike -Do you support? What will it look like?

Bignanny2

This is not going to be a popular post but I’m entitled to an opinion. I know a midwife and a recently qualified nurse in our wider family and they earn good enough money. They earn more than I do. Yes they work hard and they work long hours but again so do a lot of us. I was in fact in hospital last year and earlier this year and my brother was rushed in last week and from experience on both occasions I’d say that if they want people’s support and sympathy for their situation then they need to improve their work ethics (a lot of them seem to do what they need to and no more) and general attitudes. Yes again I know they are busy and stressed, but if they worked in a commercial business and treated or spoke to a client the way these nurses do to patients, stressed or not they’re be out on their ears. They need to appreciate that they have a job and an income.

Do you have a job where you get assaulted on an almost daily basis? You're condemning an entire profession based on the attitude of one or two nurses?

I agree that nurses should earn more, also paramedics and junior doctors.I was a non clinical middle manager in the NHS before retirement and earned as much as a junior doctor. My most junior administrator earned the same as a qualified nurse- rediculous! Senior managers were and still are on inflated salaries but it was us lesser mortals that did all the work! The whole pay scale needs to be looked at very closely,

Can I offer the perspective of someone who has a lifelong disability (spina bifida) and have been in and out of hospital all my life.

As a child and not fully aware of why these surgeries (some of them experimental in the 1960s to see if my life could be improved) were necessary, the nurses on the ward were my ‘in loco parentis’ figures and were kind, patient and comforting.

I was a child of the late 1950’s and things were a million miles away from where we are now. Even as an infant I remember screaming for my parents when I was admitted and they had to leave me there. There was no option for them to stay or even to visit outside the one hour a day times prescribed and the nurses had to fill the void.

When I was entering my teens and had a lot more awareness of my condition, and why I was having the treatment, they were my friends and confidantes during increasingly extended stays.

In later life I have still found this to be the case. The standard excuse for nurses low pay was always ‘it’s a vocation’, which, to my mind doesn’t, and has never stood up to scrutiny - especially these days, with ever more advanced qualifications to enter the profession.

It’s about time the government stopped making excuses and paid nurses what they are worth - as well as fixing the debacle surrounding the taxing of doctors’ pensions. We have a wonderful NHS - the problem is, that unless you have cause to need it, it’s easy to criticise. Only when it’s gone, will we truly realise what we had, and I hope before then, whatever government is in power will have the sense to eliminate the many unnecessary layers of admin and place the NHS firmly back in the hands of the medics who are best placed to operate it.

Pammiel..

Hear, hear

We all know the nhs has been deliberately run down by the Conservatives over the last 12 years, so at some point, in the not so far future, we will be told it’s broken, beyond help and should be totally privatised. Heaven help us it’s not based on an American model but I wouldnt be at all surprised.

Profit is the prime motive, it always is.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Wasn’t nursing seen as a vocation so decent salaries were never offered or expected?

That's because the profession was mostly women whose income was considered secondary to any man they might marry (see also, teachers). Women have traditionally been underpaid and exploited due to the excuse that it's a 'vocation'. No-one ever said that about male doctors or say, male firefighters!

I 100%support the nurses they haven't taken this decision lightly

Nursing and midwifery has long embraced science and work in an evidence based way based on research and a huge body of knowledge. They are also taking on many highly skilled aspects of healthcare that were once controlled and carried out by doctors. While caring may be an art, nursing is also a science and qualified nurses now require at least a science degree and many have higher degrees and are independent practitioners (just had a hysteroscopy and biopsy done by an Advanced Nurse Practitoner, both children delivered by midwives and no medical staff present). Their pay has lagged behind for years now, if we want nurses, male and female, to be able to live off their salaries and not just work 'for pin money' or 'until they get married' and all those old assumptions about who comprises this workforce, they do need to be paid accordingly.

I support the nurses 100%, just as I would support any worker who feels the need to strike, nobody strikes for fun.
Bit back to the nurses, everyone was keen to clap on a Thursday to show their support, but that was easy, it cost nothing. Now it's time to show real support.

Yes I wholeheartedly support the nurses going on strike and good luck to their union which has built up a sensible ‘warchest’ of money to support them, reputedly £50million. However, it is, like the railways and the Royal Mail, about much much more than just money. Brexit has caused a severe jolt in Britain’s understanding of ourselves and our place in humanity and 12 years of increasingly right wing Governments has not helped our public services to hold and latterly regain their status and support from the public.

Everything today, and I do blame the ‘American dreams’ of Thatcher, Blair & Brown and Cameron, is about profit rather than duty and service - Britain has really suffered a huge loss in the last decade in the way we understand our way of life and we are much much poorer for it, in a million ways.

Yes - I support the nurses strike. Please bear in mind that they aren’t just striking over pay, but also about the chronic understaffing in the NHS. This affects all of us. The lack of staff in key areas mean unsafe practice and demoralised and exhausted staff. Although 17.5% may sound like a lot, this demand comes on the back of years of pay freezes and underfunded pay awards which has led to the staff shortages we have now. How can it be that a highly qualified nurse can’t afford basics when they could earn 3 times as much by becoming an agency worker? The NHS has been wilfully and systematically broken by this Government. Underpaid nurses are one of the huge problems it faces. We need to all consider how much we really value “our” NHS before dismissing the nurses pay demand as unreasonable. My mum was one of the first NHS nurses and I grew up in a single-parent household where we all relied on her salary. I can assure you, regardless of whether she had a vocation or not, it was extremely challenging living on her salary. She (we) deserved more than she ever received, and so do the current nurses.

Bignanny2

This is not going to be a popular post but I’m entitled to an opinion. I know a midwife and a recently qualified nurse in our wider family and they earn good enough money. They earn more than I do. Yes they work hard and they work long hours but again so do a lot of us. I was in fact in hospital last year and earlier this year and my brother was rushed in last week and from experience on both occasions I’d say that if they want people’s support and sympathy for their situation then they need to improve their work ethics (a lot of them seem to do what they need to and no more) and general attitudes. Yes again I know they are busy and stressed, but if they worked in a commercial business and treated or spoke to a client the way these nurses do to patients, stressed or not they’re be out on their ears. They need to appreciate that they have a job and an income.

I think you need to tell us what job you do Bignanny2, maybe you also deserve a pay rise. It does not mean nurses and midwives 'earn good enough money' just because they earn more than you. Also whilst concerning, yours and your brother's experience does not reflect the majority of experiences posted on here. If you haven't already, discuss your concerns with the ward manager and / or PALS, who can do something; rather than generalising on social media. We need to appreciate and invest in our NHS otherwise we will be at increasing risk of an USA type system where the vast majority of us will end up with a far more expensive (and unaffordable for many) health care system that really does put profit before patient care and where an obscene amount is spent making sure people's insurance will cover any proposed treatment.

I fully support the nurses. During the pandemic we needed cleaners shop workers lorry drivers and nhs staff. I can’t remember clapping for hedge fund people and the like. Not only do nurses need a degree , loads of technical knowledge , but also so much emotional resilience. They see suffering every day, they tell loved ones that their parent,child, brother, sister, partner has passed away and manage the fall out. They went through emotional torture during covid holding iPads for relatives to say good byes whilst supporting their patients. They see things that most people never will ( thank god) . They also work both days and night shifts. Night shifts are known to increase the risk of chronic disease and early death. They go to uni to get degrees ,they are not paid anything like other graduates. Why does this country value bankers. MPs, insurance brokers etc more than nurses. Nurses deserve better pay. They are overworked , using food banks , looking after us at our greatest need. We all should value nurses. What will we do when we have no NHS !

I retired from nursing over 10 years ago and my 49 year old DD is also a nurse . Even in the time since I retired nursing has changed a great deal . There are very many more specialised nurses now with greater skills . My DD is now a specialist nurse in a team that go all over the hospital supporting very juniors doctors attending emergencies.
They often know how to deal with situations that new doctors don’t therefore they help the doctors come to the right plan for the patient .
We always used to say ‘don’t get admitted to hospital in August’ . That’s because that’s when the brand new intake of doctors begin on the wards .
I think my DD deserves a decent pay rise after hardly anything for the last decade. The was talk of up to 9 percent pay rise recently but that was on a sliding scale . Lower grades eg. Posters and HCAs etc would get the most (9 percent) whereas higher grades would get much less maybe only 1percent . I agree that the lower grades deserve every penny but so do the highly knowledgeable trained staff too .

The government has no money other than what it collects in taxes. The paymaster for workers in the public sector, are you and me the taxpayer and I don't know about you, but I am already taxed up to the hilt. One of the easiest things to do is spend some else's money.

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians . Nurses are leaving because of underpay and overwork. My daughter is a single mum with teenagers and she struggles to pay the bills. She is a community nurse and as such will not strike but says she will refuse to work unpaid overtime. She also is funding the NHS as the mileage allowance is not enough to cover the cost of running her car since petrol prices rose, but needs it to visit her patients. She loves her job and as most nurses, goes above and beyond her job title.

I bet many people would do love that sort of pay along with the gold plated pension.
I think nurses should get a pay rise but why should they get more than others ?

Personally I think the specialist nurses do an absolutely amazing job but experience has shown me that a lot of the others fall way below standard and do not actually 'care' for their patients leaving the basics of daily care ie washing, toilet care, feeding etc to ward helpers or ancillaries. I have come across a wide range of nurses over different wards and several have fallen way below standard even writing untruths on patients records. I think it's time for a more balanced view of nurses in general, they are not all saints.

Sorry but I do not support strike action by nurses. The money they earn and the fabulous pension plus paid overtime and good holidays is a good package. I am personally attending three hospitals and it has been immensely difficult to get seen etc. . Out patient departments are full of nurses doing very little. I think the whole NHS needs root and branch reform and furthermore the country cannot afford nearly 18 percent increase which is just ridiculous. Of course they should get a pay increase but their demands are just unfair. I have family who are nurses. They have never complained about the money they earn but certainly about the way it’s managed. Patients should be cared for not left to suffer because there are no staff to look after them. It’s very wrong and very sad.

But if things continue the way they are, Popsie, more and more nurses will continue to leave the profession and where does that leave patients? Sorry, but your experience bears no resemblance to anything I've experienced within the NHS. I'm never - in any department - seen nurses doing very little. On the contrary, they've always been rushed off their feet.

Gman

The government has no money other than what it collects in taxes. The paymaster for workers in the public sector, are you and me the taxpayer and I don't know about you, but I am already taxed up to the hilt. One of the easiest things to do is spend some else's money.

The government has no money if people aren't earning money to be taxed. We are all recipients of the money collected in tax.

Popsie

Sorry but I do not support strike action by nurses. The money they earn and the fabulous pension plus paid overtime and good holidays is a good package. I am personally attending three hospitals and it has been immensely difficult to get seen etc. . Out patient departments are full of nurses doing very little. I think the whole NHS needs root and branch reform and furthermore the country cannot afford nearly 18 percent increase which is just ridiculous. Of course they should get a pay increase but their demands are just unfair. I have family who are nurses. They have never complained about the money they earn but certainly about the way it’s managed. Patients should be cared for not left to suffer because there are no staff to look after them. It’s very wrong and very sad.

I don’t think you understand the role of nurses in outpatient departments popsie. One nurse services a number of clinical rooms, assisting with procedures and providing the patient escort function for female patients with male doctors, chasing up missing information, test results etc. they also manage the patient flow. This is an ‘on demand’ role, so there are times when they are waiting for the next demand, but there are also times when they are trying to cover more demands than their capacity. The alternative of there being a nurse in every clinic room just in case is far more costly and inefficient.

My sympathy is with you Popsie for having to attend such awful hospitals. I've had a fair few hospital visits over the last few months and the only nurses I've seen have been rushed off their feet.

I cant say I'm surprised if some nurses in the current climate are less than perfect.

Some.

The pressures are horrendous. Is that supposed to be a narrative where "nurses don't deserve a pay rise?

Nor are we taxed to the hilt. I'm on a low income btw but prepared to pay more for nurses, for our NHS.

knspol and Popsie your comments certainly resonate with me and what I have found in hospitals.There is a sentimentality around nurses, calling them angels and so on!
They are fairly well paid in my view as you can view when you google it.
A pay rise, yes, but a reasonable one and no strikes.The police also deserve a reasonable pay rise, they cannot strike.
All this talk of 15% or 17% is madness and will cause inflation which the poorer in our society will suffer the most from.
Unfortunately the unions are becoming greedy and gleeful and wish to bring down the government.As if we have no other problems to solve at the moment.