Nurses Strike -Do you support? What will it look like?

How will it cause inflation Prentice?

The Moral Maze discussed the future of the NHS in a very interesting programme. It was concerned with the health outcomes of UK compared with other countries services. It was said UK compared well in some areas but those of France and Germany plus Australia overall seemed to do better. Our main failure was in some forms of cancer. My own experience with the NHS was generally favourable although when my husband who died later of cancer was in our large teaching hospital, no nurse appeared when we rang the buzzer. I had to go to the nurses desk where a male nurse was quite aggressive but thankfully a nurse from overseas smiled and was very helpful and comforting. Nurses are individuals like all of us and we cannot expect them to be angels. It really is not something we can generalise about. However
, I really cannot see how much more money it would take to satisfy the needs that we presently see and I do think that all governments over at least 30 years have not had the guts to really sort it out. Blair did use the PFI to build new hospitals but those trusts were heavily burdened with debt to pay the Private companies who built those hospitals.

My neighbour, a nurse, says that for her, it's not the money but
the stress and shortage of nurses. Too much to do in too short a time, teams shifting constantly, agency nurses needing training, it goes on.
She thinks that since Brexit, things have got worse.
I don't think she is striking though.

No-one should be striking just now! Everyone needs to buckle down and get through the National crisis faced by everyone. Yes, nurses deserve a reward after Covid but now is not the time.

I was a nurse for 38 years .
I was very aware that I could have earned more in other professions - however I think that given the good pension + job security I was prepared to earn less.
Yes other professions have better salaries but do not have the good pensions + security. You can not have everything !
I am now retired on a good pension and my job was never at risk.

I do not support the strike - they will only make things ( staffing levels + waiting lists ) worse - and no guarantee of a better pay rise.

tansh

No-one should be striking just now! Everyone needs to buckle down and get through the National crisis faced by everyone. Yes, nurses deserve a reward after Covid but now is not the time.

Aha! Presumably you mean oil companies and their shareholders too. How about taxing them on their excess profits and if they whinge, tell them it's their duty to buckle down? How about telling non-doms the same?

Prentice

knspol and Popsie your comments certainly resonate with me and what I have found in hospitals.There is a sentimentality around nurses, calling them angels and so on!
They are fairly well paid in my view as you can view when you google it.
A pay rise, yes, but a reasonable one and no strikes.The police also deserve a reasonable pay rise, they cannot strike.
All this talk of 15% or 17% is madness and will cause inflation which the poorer in our society will suffer the most from.
Unfortunately the unions are becoming greedy and gleeful and wish to bring down the government.As if we have no other problems to solve at the moment.

As has been pointed out several times on this thread, when you are negotiating a pay rise, you start off high. You don't go in asking for 2% or 3% and expect to work your way up!

BigBertha1

I was a nurse for 35 years and I think it's a sad day that we have come to this. Unfortunately, the idea that nursing is a vocation and doesn't expect a reward for the work that;s done is very outdated. A vocation doesn't pay the bills. Some nurses feel they have a vocation many don't. For my generation and the one before it nursing was one of the very limited options and we found we had an aptitude for the task once we got into it and past the rigorous training.
The pandemic has pushed nursing and nurses to the brink and their clearly needs to be a proper and urgent conversation with the government regarding salaries and training budgets. I would never have taken strike action but each must act according to their conscience. I hope they get a decent settlement but the current demand is unrealistic.

I agree. I too was a nurse, for 42years. I joined the RCN at the time because they had a no-strike policy. I am sad it has come to this, but I would support them. Because they earn so little and working conditions are so poor, they are leaving the profession in droves and recruitment is not even keeping up with the current vacancies, let alone bringing the staff numbers up to the required numbers,

For those who say.they cannot support striking in the current situation, I understand, but the general community will be (and in fact already are) suffering asa result of staff shortages. It is a vicious circle which needs to be addressed. The more staff leave, the more who are left behind will follow to get out of the situation.

I don’t have the answers. Ideally, none of the essential services should be pushed into striking but, to achieve that they must be rewarded sufficiently to retain and recruit staff.

I don't support their strike at all! I wish I earned as much as a nurse does newly qualified. But hey ho, I only have a degree, which I worked hard for and work in an industry which I think is important and care for my elderly neighbours as much as I can as they don't get the support they deserve from the NHS. How can they possibly think of leaving people to suffer with delayed treatment? that's not a nurse, that's a person who wants a secure job with a reasonable wage. The country is in an awful state so why strike now. Sorry nurses, we can't afford to pay you any more unless we up the taxes of minimum wage and low income people, as well as the wealthier. Absolutely disgusted with them. Florence Nightingale is turning in her grave I'm sure. They are a disgrace to the title of 'nurse'. That's set the cat among the pigeons I'm sure.

Wong Over a third of any money paid to nurses in increased pay will immediately be returned to the Treasury in oncome tax and National Insurance. Nurses pay taxes too! Not only that, but the extra money they earn will be spent on goods, most of which will be taxed too. That will keep other people in jobs and they'll pay taxes as well.

Well, Wong, I sincerely hope you don't need to rely on the services of nurses at any time soon. If you think they're so well paid, how are some nurses having to resort to foodbanks to feed their families?

Romola

My neighbour, a nurse, says that for her, it's not the money but
the stress and shortage of nurses. Too much to do in too short a time, teams shifting constantly, agency nurses needing training, it goes on.
She thinks that since Brexit, things have got worse.
I don't think she is striking though.

Absolutely agree with your neighbour Romola my daughter says exactly the same thing. Add unrealistic government targets into the mix as well.

I was disgusted to hear MPs cheering when a motion to increase NHS salaries was defeated It was all about political power, not what was good for ordinary working people doing their job and getting proper recognition for it. This was still in May (hem)'s reign. I have recently undergone urgent treatment by the NHS and have been very impressed. Nurses have my support.

"Absolutely disgusted with them."

Speechless, frankly.

Wong

I don't support their strike at all! I wish I earned as much as a nurse does newly qualified. But hey ho, I only have a degree, which I worked hard for and work in an industry which I think is important and care for my elderly neighbours as much as I can as they don't get the support they deserve from the NHS. How can they possibly think of leaving people to suffer with delayed treatment? that's not a nurse, that's a person who wants a secure job with a reasonable wage. The country is in an awful state so why strike now. Sorry nurses, we can't afford to pay you any more unless we up the taxes of minimum wage and low income people, as well as the wealthier. Absolutely disgusted with them. Florence Nightingale is turning in her grave I'm sure. They are a disgrace to the title of 'nurse'. That's set the cat among the pigeons I'm sure.

No cat amongst the pigeons Wong, you saying you had a degree, implying you were better qualified than nurses (who also have degrees) switched people off the rest of what you said anyway. More like a dead duck than a cat.

Whilst acknowledging nurses pay has probably fallen in real terms, to ask for 15% seems unrealistic. Given inflation has increased won't such a high increase just add to the cost of living. I always question a percentage being used in calculations, a percentage of what? I know 2 nurses on £39k and one on £33K. Perhaps all the pensioners who do free childcare should go on strike too.

How does nurses' pay add to the cost of living?

I do support the nurses' strike. I think they have been treated abominably over the last 12 years and have put up with their salaries being significantly reduced in real terms during that time. On top of that, their workloads have become unmanageable. It must be so demoralising - and frightening at times - to know that you are working in an unsafe environment.

I believe acute and emergency services will still operate but a strike will obviously have a knock on effect so far as non-urgent services are concerned.

Some people who can afford to may reluctantly feel they must use private provision. Perhaps this government would secretly welcome that, and the demise of the NHS. The Conservatives never supported it from the word go but, in line with popular opinion, have had to pay lip service to it. Perhaps they are hoping that this will be the final nail in the coffin that will convince some people to demand a different system.

As an ex nurse myself I totally agree with you, they are not being realistic to be honest, 15% is unrealistic.....

My daughter is a nurse. For some years she has worked exclusively on her hospital’s nurse bank. These are not agencies, but part of the NHS. A few weeks ago, she was told that bank nurses’ pay in her trust was to be CUT by £3 an hour. This brings her wages down to less than a nurse on a permanent contract. The local RCN rep must be busy!

Less than half of nurses nationwide have voted to strike - and the ones that have not are disgusted by their colleagues. People are going to die - maybe not from lack of emergency care but from late diagnosis, treatment and operations. Not to mention the number of people who will continue for EVEN LONGER to live in chronic pain whilst waiting for elective surgery. I have no time for the NHS "sacred cow" stuff - they are bloated and inefficient and in need of major reform. Unfortunately no government has the balls to do more than tinker around the edges with the sacred cow. For a so-called caring profession - the idea of them going on strike disgusts me. They say their pay has deteriorated in real terms - welcome to the club - how many people in the private sector have seen real terms wage growth in the last 14 years since the financial crash? These militant unions are going to bring the country to its knees just as we are going into recession following the pandemic and the war in Ukraine - well done you!

I'm supporting them 100%.

They've had essentially pay CUTS for several years now, and they do a job I could never, in a million years, manage to do. Which they also have to pass rigorous training and exams for the privilege of doing, just as an astrophysicist has to.

I cannot understand, though I hugely appreciate, how anyone can cart around a total stranger's sick/pee/poo/bloodied dressings/pus-filled dressings ..etc.

And clean patient's bums; watch gory operations as they assist in Theatre; get attacked and spat on and name-called when they try to help ar*eholes who come into A&E drunk and aggressive; comfort grieving people whose loved one has just died and witness tiny children suffer and die from cancer.

I could go on, but basically what it comes down to is that I think nurses are worth at least as much in salary as any MP and do a far more taxing job.

Starting salary for a newly qualified nurse is £27,055.
Average nurse with 5 years’ experience, earns £33,000 to £35,000.
Pay of nurses automatically increases with the number of years they serve.
In addition, they have a generous pension scheme, 27 days annual leave plus bank holidays, maternity and paternity leave in excess of statutory minimum, enhanced pay for unsociable hours and access to fully funded training courses.

Taken from www.nurses.co.uk/ - accessed 12/11/22

Those who trained with an NHS bursary have no student loan to repay.

For comparison, the median salary for those in a similar age group in other jobs is between £25,000 and £34,000

Always good to have the facts.

Private and public sector wage growth 2010-2017:

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/ispayhigherinthepublicorprivatesector/2017-11-16

Public sector wages are now lagging the private sector.