Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

Thank you for pointing out those stats icanhandtheback we cannot equate living standards now with the 40s and 50s.
Another misconception montymops is using bleach to treat mould in homes. It isn’t recommended.

Glorianny

Callistemon21

She has limited English skills

Translators are available in the NHS.
That makes it even worse.

Were they during Covid though? Only one parent was permitted to stay because of Covid. Access and entry to hospitals was strictly controlled.

Oh dear, yes course.

The H.Assn guy has been sacked.
Gove had called him in to account for his leadership on this matter on Thursday & this announcement has just been made.

Montymops. To address your points; you are an example of what is called survivor bias, ie you can ramble on about the good old days of damp, poor quality housing, but those who dies of bronchitis, repeated chest infections are not here to speak as the chart posted by icanhandthemback illustrates so well

The victimes are this family - all three of them. I am appalled that people can actually write on here trying to blame them in any way for their tragedy caused by dreadfully inadequate housing. Theyknew it was, they did jsut about everything possible to get it taken notice of - this was accepted by the Coroners court, theyw ere just ignored time and time again.

Back in past when I was small, Oh, Yes, lots and lots of inadequate housing and it caused so very much illness and fatality amongst children. I had hoped and thought we had moved forward in this country from the post-war years.

Those of us brought up in the 40’s and 50’s know what freezing cold houses were like - damp, chilly, - no toys, restricted food, pea souper fogs, - so therefore we had to make do ourselves. We couldn’t blame anyone else or ask anyone for help.

Statista.com shows Child mortality rate (under five years old) in the United Kingdom from 1800 to 2020 in the chart I have posted. Just look at the differences montymops . You might remember these times but the world has moved on and it is because we have that it is such a travesty. We are supposed to be a civilised society where people of all cultures are supposed to be given the same care regardless of language spoken or ethnic origin. The fact that you are happy to blame the parents even though reports have shown they tried to get help says far more about you than it does them.

Callistemon21

^She has limited English skills^

Translators are available in the NHS.
That makes it even worse.

Were they during Covid though? Only one parent was permitted to stay because of Covid. Access and entry to hospitals was strictly controlled.

She has limited English skills

Translators are available in the NHS.
That makes it even worse.

One of the causes of this child's death and it is absolutely nothing to do with the housing association was the failure to provide proper medical treatment.
Briefly the child had been in hospital only the mother was permitted to stay because oof covid. She has limited English skills. When the child was discharged the doctor told her to take him back if he deteriorated, but the mother didn't understand that she meant back to that hospital.

The coroner expressed concern about an “evident gap” in information sharing between health visitors, midwives, early help services and the GP.

Awaab was treated at Royal Oldham hospital on 19 December and discharged. Kearlsey said the family should have been told to call an ambulance or take him directly to Royal Oldham hospital if he had further difficulties. He died on 21 December.

He wasn't taken straight to the ROH as he should have been.

The parents are victims too.
They lost their child in avoidable circumstances.

montymops

Did you not read the statement from the parents?

“We cannot tell you how many health professionals we have cried in front of and Rochdale borough housing staff we have pleaded to expressing concern … We shouted out as loudly as we could,” they said.

I am blaming his parents for allowing the situation to develop so far
And yet you still blame them.

I expected a barrage of criticism!! I am not blaming the victim - who is that dear little boy- I am blaming his parents for allowing the situation to develop so far. Obviously the association too for neglecting to help. We don’t know how vigorous the parents were in their visits to them or to the medical profession. What has happened to personal responsibility? Those of us brought up in the 40’s and 50’s know what freezing cold houses were like - damp, chilly, - no toys, restricted food, pea souper fogs, - so therefore we had to make do ourselves. We couldn’t blame anyone else or ask anyone for help.

25Avalon

You can vote on change.org for Awaab’s Law launched by the Manchester Evening Post that no one should have to endure such living conditions.

There are many thousands of houses like this both private and social, it’s only going to be solved with more money, without that nothing will change.

You can vote on change.org for Awaab’s Law launched by the Manchester Evening Post that no one should have to endure such living conditions.

Frankly, my money is on the housing authority not being strictly truthful here, as they do not seem to have claimed that they actually went and looked at the property in question, which is surely the first thing a landlord should be expected to do

I think that's right.

If houses are properly insulated and keep at an even temperature of at least 19 degrees centigrade, then opening windows for five to ten minutes in bedrooms and sitting rooms, and for 15 when the bathroom is damp after showering and either using an extractor fan when cooking or airing the kitchen when you have finished, should be more than sufficient to prevent black mould

Sorry, Grandtante but it just doesn't work like that.

If only it was that simple! Despite scrubbing, cleaning, washing, airing, using a dehumidifier, extractor fan, the stuff reappears.
After the mould come the mites.
Everything gets mouldy. Soft furnishings have to be thrown. Mattresses, bedding, clothing.

It grows and the battle is relentless and disheartening because the mould wins in the end.

I can't quite believe that the victims are being blamed. Surely if there was a damp problem caused by them not knowing "how we do things here", wouldn't it be incumbent on any landlord to visit to see where things are going wrong. We have had to do that for tenants who are young and often have no idea that the way they treat the property can have such a significant impact.

We have a handbook for our property which clearly states how to avoid damp, how to contact us if things are going wrong, etc. It's not exactly rocket science...unless the structure is problematic!

The key grandtante in addition to adequate ventilation, is an even temperature of 19c which many, particularly poorer (or not even poorer) residents can afford to maintain, and properly insulated which I suspect many houses are not. I’m sure you’re right about mould not being dealt with initially by the landlord with fungicide, and mould resistant paint.
The poor residents are fighting a losing battle.

Those of you who are victim blaming here should hang your heads in shame. That poor wee lad DIED! The landlords who did nothing should be imprisoned for negligence/manslaughter. If an example of them was made, other landlords would pretty swiftly buck up their ideas and perhaps we wouldn't have to see this kind of thing ever again.

Obviously, all kinds of mould grow in damp conditions, but it is not strictly true to say that poor ventilation and overheating are the main causes.

If houses are properly insulated and keep at an even temperature of at least 19 degrees centigrade, then opening windows for five to ten minutes in bedrooms and sitting rooms, and for 15 when the bathroom is damp after showering and either using an extractor fan when cooking or airing the kitchen when you have finished, should be more than sufficient to prevent black mould.

However, it is easier for mould to develop than it is for you to get rid of it! So I suspect the problem is that the housing we hear about has had mould for a long time, some attempt has been made to get rid of it, the mouldy walls repainted and then the mould just comes back unnoticed to start of with.

In the present sad case, both parties cannot be being strictly truthful, as the housing authority says they have not been clearly informed there was a problem, and the bereaved parents say they have repeatedly begged, cried shouted and so on.

Frankly, my money is on the housing authority not being strictly truthful here, as they do not seem to have claimed that they actually went and looked at the property in question, which is surely the first thing a landlord should be expected to do.

Just popped back onto this thread, still the same blaming the parents, either for drying their washing indoors or for being 'foreign' and not knowing 'how we do things here'.

depressing

Katie59

Callistemon21

Strong chemicals like bleach are not good for children (or anyone) to inhale either.

That’s why parents take babies swimming to give them a good dose of bleach.
The concentration would be similar to scrubbing a floor or ceiling with bleach, or many other cleaners.

🤔

It's nowhere near the concentration used in bleach used for cleaning mould.

Yes, but lots of strains aren't killed by bleach

It won't work on porous surfaces anyway.

Yes, but lots of strains aren't killed by bleach.

It literally bleaches it white so it looks ok, at best.

Callistemon21

Strong chemicals like bleach are not good for children (or anyone) to inhale either.

That’s why parents take babies swimming to give them a good dose of bleach.
The concentration would be similar to scrubbing a floor or ceiling with bleach, or many other cleaners.

montymops

I quite agree Caleo about ventilation - also why wasn’t the mould removed with bleach by the person living there? Then painted over with mould resistant paint? Negligent child care actually.

Their fault that their baby died - nothing whatsoever to do with them being housed in a building totally unfit for purpose. So, if they used that bleach and the child died from breathing in those fumes, whose fault would that be?

Victim blaming at the worst!!!!