Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

Thanks for confirming about the dehumidifier only working if there are no structural defects.

It's sadly too late for the family mentioned, but was thinking of people in the future. Not pointing the finger at all, but aware of financial struggles that may make buying or running a dehumidifier impossible. On top of this, people who are refugees from a warmer climate are going to find Britain really cold and probably don't know they are meant to ventilate if they aren't told. Building standards are different here than other parts of the world.

More information and help needed to avoid anything like this happening ever again. It never should have happened.

I bought the dehumidifier, they worry about the running cost

Long, but interesting read from the Ombudsman about damp and mould:

www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Spotlight-report-Damp-and-mould-final.pdf

Urmstongran

I find it shocking and reprehensible that with all of today’s technology - emails for example - that various departments still seem unable to share concerns needing urgent attention in a robust manner. Too many ‘open ended’ or ineffectual communications. It’s dispiriting and in this case, tragic.

I find it shocking and reprehensible that with all of today’s technology - emails for example - that various departments still seem unable to share concerns needing urgent attention in a robust manner.

Exactly this!

In the 'old' days it would've required telephone calls and letters via snail-mail which understandably would've slowed down any progress with a problem like this. Now a mail can be whizzed off in a matter of minutes.

It's almost as if the various 'agencies' involved aren't really interested in dealing with the problem.

This is the same culture that appears to operate when yet another tragic death of a child at the hands of its parents makes headline news. Where it's explained as "missed opportunities". There does appear to be an awful lot of opportunities being missed, as opposed to, say, sheer incompetence somewhere along the line.

When I have not had a garage to dry washing in, I dry it in one specific room, with the door shut and the window wide open.

M0nica

When I have not had a garage to dry washing in, I dry it in one specific room, with the door shut and the window wide open.

I doubt if many social housing flats have a spare room which can be used for laundry. It would appear that the bathroom in the flat in Rochdale didn't have a window and relied on a broken extractor fan.

I don’t intend to derail this discussion but urmston’ s point about open ended communication resonated with me. I’ve had endless unproductive, frustrating, lengthy telephone and form contact with the DWP as a result of my husband’s death.

We seem to be in a place where the people tasked with answering phones see it as acceptable to have you hold on for 30 mins or more. Then you’re told they don’t deal with that, phone in again on the same number but press 4 instead of x. Im competent, I can afford my mobile phone, English is my first language.
I can imagine how these parents were robbed off, ignored.

M0nica

When I have not had a garage to dry washing in, I dry it in one specific room, with the door shut and the window wide open.

This really does show that some people have no knowledge or understandng as to how so many people live. Families in social/housing association etc properties barely have enough room(s) to provide bedrooms for individulas, let alone have a garage or a room in which to keep the laundry!!!!!

On tv new recently, the single parent Dad, with two young boys on the 13th floor of a Tower Block in a one bedroom flat. All three of them having to sleep in one double sized bed!!!.

The case is appalling. But surely anyone with any common sense could see that this dwelling was not fit for habitation. I have been poor in my life but would have done at least something. Like open windows, use bleach, ask for help... this is a wealthy country and there is help available. The parents shouldn't have to do any of this of course but sometimes we have to take matters into our own hands.

His,parents followed the advice given, begged and pleaded for help, and none of the agencies they asked acted on the concerns raised.

There does appear to be an awful lot of opportunities being missed, as opposed to, say, sheer incompetence somewhere along the line.

Lessons will be learned I expect, Dickens

I'd say it will be interesting to see how this plays out, but considering the death of a child is involved, its unpalatable, to say the least.

Callistemon21

^There does appear to be an awful lot of opportunities being missed, as opposed to, say, sheer incompetence somewhere along the line^.

Lessons will be learned I expect, Dickens

Oh yes, those lessons...

But of course, they "take these matters very seriously indeed".

The 'lessons' are never learned and they obviously do not take matters seriously enough. Otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing this rinse-and-repeat scenario.

Lessons will be learned
Missed opportunities
We're working very hard

And the worst of the lot

Our hearts go out

How I hate these phrases - they usually mean something has gone disastrously wrong and could have been prevented.

Imagine, your child dies because of dangerous housing conditions you have repeatedly raised with your social landlord. You see on line that many people blame you for your child’s death

The parents have so many opportunities for others to lay blame at their door, precisely because they are vulnerable in many respects.

The very people who could do with a bit of empathy and practical support.

Iam64

I don’t intend to derail this discussion but urmston’ s point about open ended communication resonated with me. I’ve had endless unproductive, frustrating, lengthy telephone and form contact with the DWP as a result of my husband’s death.

We seem to be in a place where the people tasked with answering phones see it as acceptable to have you hold on for 30 mins or more. Then you’re told they don’t deal with that, phone in again on the same number but press 4 instead of x. Im competent, I can afford my mobile phone, English is my first language.
I can imagine how these parents were robbed off, ignored.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Iam64

Imagine, your child dies because of dangerous housing conditions you have repeatedly raised with your social landlord. You see on line that many people blame you for your child’s death

It's quite sickening. Some people read about a tragedy like this and immediately jump to conclusions (and often don't read the full report or article).

We're embracing such an individualistic culture now that it has hardened people's minds. A child dies - the facts of the case are stated - yet some are determined to blame the parents even though as in this case, they tried to deal with the problem, and there's precious little sympathy.

No wonder "care in the community" doesn't work. Neither the government nor the community care one jot about the disadvantaged and the vulnerable. If they did, we'd have a functioning system.

Iam64

Imagine, your child dies because of dangerous housing conditions you have repeatedly raised with your social landlord. You see on line that many people blame you for your child’s death

Just awful.
In cases like this it’s always the landlords, social or private that are to blame.
That, allied to incompetence from various Council depts.

Social housing isn't legally required to reach the same standards as those in the private rented sector. As usual the poorest and most vulnerable get the worst protection.

Another underlying issue is that of nymbyism: it's difficult to get enough houses built because existing communities fear an adverse effect on on their local infrastructure and property values. There aren't enough brownfield sites to meet all needs and they are usually more expensive to develop (contamination, objecting neighbours, etc.) than greenfield sites (which tend to get the rural heritage lobby going). But a government intent on providing adequate social and private housing could overcome these if it really wanted to. I doubt the Tories want to.

My wife and I have both worked for a Housing Association in the past. This problem of black mould existed in the brand new modern housing that we administered. The cause was the same, drying clothes indoors, not opening windows for ventilation, not ventilating bathroom after showering or bathing, not using extractors when cooking. The tenants ignored all the advice they were given and constantly blamed the Association.

I do wonder (and I am trying hard not to make this victim blaming, it is more to do with the system I think) if because there is such a shortage of social housing a tenant hoping to be rehoused will fail to do things that might help alleviate the problem. Because it is in their interests for the landlord to see the property in the worst conditions possible. Both parties seem locked into an adversarial system. The landlord having huge and complicated admin systems and the tenant having to prove a property uninhabitable to be rehoused.
It is of course a direct result of a lack of investment by the government in social housing and the strange phenomenon of housing becoming a source of investment rather than about providing homes for people

Jess20

Social housing isn't legally required to reach the same standards as those in the private rented sector. As usual the poorest and most vulnerable get the worst protection.

As a private landlord if my tenant complains to the relevant authority, they will notify me that there is a problem and insist that the problem is resolved within 28 days. This might be with a problem that the tenant has never mentioned before. We did have a tenant that did keep complaining about various things which the council would send out an automatic letter for without inspection; the tenant was the cause of the problem, eg. drying their washing on radiators and then complaining about ensuing condensation. They wanted a Council/Social Housing property and thought this was the way to get it. Eventually we demanded an inspection from the Council who were very surprised at the good standard of the property and gave the tenants a flea in their ear telling them that Social Housing was unlikely to be as good.
When we were in Social Housing, we kept complaining about the mould behind the toilet which we just couldn't get rid of. It would take weeks for somebody to come out, fiddle about a bit and then treat it as resolved. After 18 months of this with the problem getting steadily worse, I tried to approach the Council to get a 28 day notice but found that the Housing Association wasn't under the same rules as a Private landlord. Eventually they found that the toilet was leaking raw sewage and and that was why we had such a horrible problem. It was fixed but no apology for the hassle or the time it took to be fixed.

Please excuse the lack of PC in this. I was a housing welfare officer - the authority I worked for had a lady whose role was to visit those the local housing office saw were not coping (normally young mums). She would visit and work with the girl more or less as a good mother would have done. She would have explained condensation and how to clean, clear and use anti mould paint. And would have DONE it with her and got maintenance in for the heavier stuff. (This is just for example, she did all sorts, as necessary, of the practical how to run your home and keep your children clean and fed.) 'Ellen' was paid by the LA and kept many children from having to go into care - better for them and better for us. And I can see how a lady with little spoken English who'd grown up in a completely different climate would not know what housekeeping is needed in England - husband also. Tragic that we have privatised it all and got rid of the 'overbearing paternalism' of local housing offices and knowing tenants. Pity this poor child and his parents, it should NEVER have happened.