Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

Callistemon21

growstuff

Callistemon21

It seems to be standard practice to blame tenants.

Yes.

Indeed!

See the post above yours.

Probably a X post.

I know all about this from the present experiences of one of our DC.
It's shocking.

Yes, it is. My student DS had a problem with damp in a flat and the landlord tried to blame him. Students are an easy target because they tend to be poor, don't have experience of property maintenance and have a reputation for reckless living. What the landlord didn't realise was that my DS's father is a qualified surveyor, who produced a list of faults not only to the flat but to the building and threatened to report the landlord to the council.

Unfortunately I think nothing will be done about this once the media circus has moved on to the next problem. Substandard housing is a real problem in the UK and it won't be solved overnight. There may be culpability in this case but it's not obvious what the solution was in the absence of alternative accommodation or technical solutions. Better social housing is the answer but Councils have not been building much if it over the years since the sale of Council houses started by the Tories. So-called affordable homes are out of reach of many tenants.

Caleo

Growstuff, then the landlords needed to educate the tenants about how to ventilate and heat the flats.

If they can't afford the heating then that is a separate issue.

nice bit of victim blaming there. No amount of opening bloody windows or 'educating clients' in how to ventilate their homes would have solved this issue. The mould was everywhere, the property unfit for habitation, and nobody listened

Should people who aren't in social housing be educated, then?

Esspee

The landlord is getting the blame but surely the parents have a responsibility to keep the property aired, heated and cleaned. It is relatively cheap to kill off mould with a simple bleach spray, one done, if the damp is controlled it shouldn’t return.

I have had great difficulty trying to get highly intelligent overseas tenants to understand that sealing up windows over the winter will cause damp buildup from breathing, cooking, and drying clothes inside without using the dryer supplied.

Now that energy is so expensive this problem is only going to get worse.

It is not always the landlord to blame.

and another one victim blaming. Some of you just don't get it do you? Or is it just an inconvenient truth?

Whitewavemark2

The Tories voted against a bill that called for housing to be fit for human habitation.

Their actions led to this.

Yes, they did. Yet another inconvenient truth. I think the board of the Housing Association should be tried for Corporate Manslaughter, yet I predict another enquiry, and another 'Lessons will be learned' PR exercise with some mealy mouthed spokesperson trying to look concerned for anything other than their own job

It depends on the cause of the damp. If it's penetrating mould, it's because there is some fault in the structure of the building.

My understanding in this case is that the property had been inspected. A new extractor fan was recommended and replastering, but nothing was done. From the pictures, it looks like more than surface mould from condensation.

Grantanow

Unfortunately I think nothing will be done about this once the media circus has moved on to the next problem. Substandard housing is a real problem in the UK and it won't be solved overnight. There may be culpability in this case but it's not obvious what the solution was in the absence of alternative accommodation or technical solutions. Better social housing is the answer but Councils have not been building much if it over the years since the sale of Council houses started by the Tories. So-called affordable homes are out of reach of many tenants.

I fear you are right.
This will cost a great deal of money, and sadly I can’t see the government, particularly this one, prioritising this awful problem. Houses and flats need to be properly constructed, but retrospective remedial treatment, ie ventilation and insulation and adequate heating will cost millions. This is a symptom of our grossly unequal society, where the poor have no power and can be ignored.

So sad in this day and age.

Esspee

The landlord is getting the blame but surely the parents have a responsibility to keep the property aired, heated and cleaned. It is relatively cheap to kill off mould with a simple bleach spray, one done, if the damp is controlled it shouldn’t return.

I have had great difficulty trying to get highly intelligent overseas tenants to understand that sealing up windows over the winter will cause damp buildup from breathing, cooking, and drying clothes inside without using the dryer supplied.

Now that energy is so expensive this problem is only going to get worse.

It is not always the landlord to blame.

Victim blaming always makes one feel better, doesn’t it?

It’s most definitely not so called victim blaming to say that everyone has a responsibility to keep their home properly ventilated to prevent damp causing problems. This applies to tenants as well as owner -occupier.
It may well be though in this particular case that the construction of the whole block of flats was mostly the problem, but we don’t know for sure yet.
A news article did mention poor ventilation.

All I and some others have pointed out is that there’s a great deal we can all do in preventing the problem getting worse.

My DC has been stressed exhausted and left out of pocket because of similar problems and I worry about possible health problems.
It turns out to be rising damp, although the agent says there is no such thing.

If people can afford dehumidifiers, I've heard they make the washing dry a lot quicker. Obviously for someone on a low income , they might not be able to afford buying one in the first place, let alone paying for the electric to run it.

If the building itself is faulty, then a dehumidifier may not help? I wonder if Housing Associations can lend them to their tenants who have a damp problem?

I was told by a |Scottish landlord that before you are allowed to rent out a property in Scotland you have to prove you are of good character. This should apply everywhere.
I know someone who is afraid to complain about anything to the landlord for fear of being evicted.

MissAdventure

Should people who aren't in social housing be educated, then?

Heavens to murgatroyde, what are you thinking 😱

I have to wonder where all this helpful advice was when desperate parents were asking for help

But let's not talk about that, let's give it now when it's too late instead of showing a little empathy

When I saw the title of this thread I wondered to myself if anyone would be unkind enough to blame the tenants or parents.

The newspaper article I read claimed there were 600 homes with damp/mould controlled by this housing association. That's about 5% of their total stock.

Either there are structural problems - in which case they need to do the repairs - or their tenants need some serious educating (probably both) - in which case, it's a serious enough problem for personal visits and explaining to people what they need to do.

Just turning a blind eye and saying it's up to the tenants isn't good enough.

Isn't deregulation just wonderful!!!

NO

It’s all very well “educating” tenants to ventilate properties by opening windows, but if it’s freezing cold outside, if they have to dry clothes indoors, can’t afford a condensing dryer, can’t adequately heat the property, and importantly there is inadequate or no insulation or structural ventilation it’s not going to help much.

varian

Isn't deregulation just wonderful!!!

NO

This

OnwardandUpward

If people can afford dehumidifiers, I've heard they make the washing dry a lot quicker. Obviously for someone on a low income , they might not be able to afford buying one in the first place, let alone paying for the electric to run it.

If the building itself is faulty, then a dehumidifier may not help? I wonder if Housing Associations can lend them to their tenants who have a damp problem?

We bought one for DC and she used the aircon too but the building itself is faulty.

Dehumoidify, scrub, wash, clean, spray the mites, repeat.
It's like fighting a losing battle.

I bought a dehumidifier for one of my daughters. They’re constantly washing, 2 adults, 2 small children, one an occasional bed wetter/. They can’t afford to use a drier. Washing draped over driers and radiators led to damp especially in one of the little ones bedroom. The dehumidifier helps .
I’ve tried to buy an electric clothes drier, the one everyone knows is effective and economical. Sold out.

Dehumidifiers only work if there's no structural problem. If there is, the damp air will just continue to enter the building, bringing all sorts of nasties with it.

Agreed growstuff. My daughter’s bungalow is sound but they’re self employed and on tight income. Luckily they’ve good family support