Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

Strong chemicals like bleach are not good for children (or anyone) to inhale either.

All this shows is a lack of understanding of the real problems people are facing.

montymops

I quite agree Caleo about ventilation - also why wasn’t the mould removed with bleach by the person living there? Then painted over with mould resistant paint? Negligent child care actually.

As I and others have said, it's fighting a losing battle trying to deal with mould if the cause is structural - in my post upthread I've referred to it being the flat roof in my case not being properly insulated. No amount of bleach would have kept it at bay.

Bleach often does just what it says.
Bleaches stuff.

Not the same as eradicating it at all.

Plus, there are something like 3000 different forms of mould.

With the cut back on heating due to the current horrendous cost there will be a lot of damp issues arising. Many will just not be able to have heating on, dry washing indoors increasing humidity. Cold, wet weather will not encourage opening windows. The case in the media is appalling.

Yup! MissAdventure like the old saying ‘If it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ .

I quite agree Caleo about ventilation - also why wasn’t the mould removed with bleach by the person living there? Then painted over with mould resistant paint? Negligent child care actually.

Isn't it often the case that "old, outdated" things work pretty well.

Please excuse the lack of PC in this. I was a housing welfare officer - the authority I worked for had a lady whose role was to visit those the local housing office saw were not coping (normally young mums). She would visit and work with the girl more or less as a good mother would have done. She would have explained condensation and how to clean, clear and use anti mould paint. And would have DONE it with her and got maintenance in for the heavier stuff. (This is just for example, she did all sorts, as necessary, of the practical how to run your home and keep your children clean and fed.) 'Ellen' was paid by the LA and kept many children from having to go into care - better for them and better for us. And I can see how a lady with little spoken English who'd grown up in a completely different climate would not know what housekeeping is needed in England - husband also. Tragic that we have privatised it all and got rid of the 'overbearing paternalism' of local housing offices and knowing tenants. Pity this poor child and his parents, it should NEVER have happened.

Jess20

Social housing isn't legally required to reach the same standards as those in the private rented sector. As usual the poorest and most vulnerable get the worst protection.

As a private landlord if my tenant complains to the relevant authority, they will notify me that there is a problem and insist that the problem is resolved within 28 days. This might be with a problem that the tenant has never mentioned before. We did have a tenant that did keep complaining about various things which the council would send out an automatic letter for without inspection; the tenant was the cause of the problem, eg. drying their washing on radiators and then complaining about ensuing condensation. They wanted a Council/Social Housing property and thought this was the way to get it. Eventually we demanded an inspection from the Council who were very surprised at the good standard of the property and gave the tenants a flea in their ear telling them that Social Housing was unlikely to be as good.
When we were in Social Housing, we kept complaining about the mould behind the toilet which we just couldn't get rid of. It would take weeks for somebody to come out, fiddle about a bit and then treat it as resolved. After 18 months of this with the problem getting steadily worse, I tried to approach the Council to get a 28 day notice but found that the Housing Association wasn't under the same rules as a Private landlord. Eventually they found that the toilet was leaking raw sewage and and that was why we had such a horrible problem. It was fixed but no apology for the hassle or the time it took to be fixed.

I do wonder (and I am trying hard not to make this victim blaming, it is more to do with the system I think) if because there is such a shortage of social housing a tenant hoping to be rehoused will fail to do things that might help alleviate the problem. Because it is in their interests for the landlord to see the property in the worst conditions possible. Both parties seem locked into an adversarial system. The landlord having huge and complicated admin systems and the tenant having to prove a property uninhabitable to be rehoused.
It is of course a direct result of a lack of investment by the government in social housing and the strange phenomenon of housing becoming a source of investment rather than about providing homes for people

My wife and I have both worked for a Housing Association in the past. This problem of black mould existed in the brand new modern housing that we administered. The cause was the same, drying clothes indoors, not opening windows for ventilation, not ventilating bathroom after showering or bathing, not using extractors when cooking. The tenants ignored all the advice they were given and constantly blamed the Association.

Another underlying issue is that of nymbyism: it's difficult to get enough houses built because existing communities fear an adverse effect on on their local infrastructure and property values. There aren't enough brownfield sites to meet all needs and they are usually more expensive to develop (contamination, objecting neighbours, etc.) than greenfield sites (which tend to get the rural heritage lobby going). But a government intent on providing adequate social and private housing could overcome these if it really wanted to. I doubt the Tories want to.

Social housing isn't legally required to reach the same standards as those in the private rented sector. As usual the poorest and most vulnerable get the worst protection.

Iam64

Imagine, your child dies because of dangerous housing conditions you have repeatedly raised with your social landlord. You see on line that many people blame you for your child’s death

Just awful.
In cases like this it’s always the landlords, social or private that are to blame.
That, allied to incompetence from various Council depts.

Iam64

Imagine, your child dies because of dangerous housing conditions you have repeatedly raised with your social landlord. You see on line that many people blame you for your child’s death

It's quite sickening. Some people read about a tragedy like this and immediately jump to conclusions (and often don't read the full report or article).

We're embracing such an individualistic culture now that it has hardened people's minds. A child dies - the facts of the case are stated - yet some are determined to blame the parents even though as in this case, they tried to deal with the problem, and there's precious little sympathy.

No wonder "care in the community" doesn't work. Neither the government nor the community care one jot about the disadvantaged and the vulnerable. If they did, we'd have a functioning system.

Iam64

I don’t intend to derail this discussion but urmston’ s point about open ended communication resonated with me. I’ve had endless unproductive, frustrating, lengthy telephone and form contact with the DWP as a result of my husband’s death.

We seem to be in a place where the people tasked with answering phones see it as acceptable to have you hold on for 30 mins or more. Then you’re told they don’t deal with that, phone in again on the same number but press 4 instead of x. Im competent, I can afford my mobile phone, English is my first language.
I can imagine how these parents were robbed off, ignored.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The parents have so many opportunities for others to lay blame at their door, precisely because they are vulnerable in many respects.

The very people who could do with a bit of empathy and practical support.

Imagine, your child dies because of dangerous housing conditions you have repeatedly raised with your social landlord. You see on line that many people blame you for your child’s death

Lessons will be learned
Missed opportunities
We're working very hard

And the worst of the lot

Our hearts go out

How I hate these phrases - they usually mean something has gone disastrously wrong and could have been prevented.

Callistemon21

^There does appear to be an awful lot of opportunities being missed, as opposed to, say, sheer incompetence somewhere along the line^.

Lessons will be learned I expect, Dickens

Oh yes, those lessons...

But of course, they "take these matters very seriously indeed".

The 'lessons' are never learned and they obviously do not take matters seriously enough. Otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing this rinse-and-repeat scenario.

I'd say it will be interesting to see how this plays out, but considering the death of a child is involved, its unpalatable, to say the least.

There does appear to be an awful lot of opportunities being missed, as opposed to, say, sheer incompetence somewhere along the line.

Lessons will be learned I expect, Dickens

His,parents followed the advice given, begged and pleaded for help, and none of the agencies they asked acted on the concerns raised.

The case is appalling. But surely anyone with any common sense could see that this dwelling was not fit for habitation. I have been poor in my life but would have done at least something. Like open windows, use bleach, ask for help... this is a wealthy country and there is help available. The parents shouldn't have to do any of this of course but sometimes we have to take matters into our own hands.