Death of a two year old in substandard social housing

She has limited English skills

Translators are available in the NHS.
That makes it even worse.

Callistemon21

^She has limited English skills^

Translators are available in the NHS.
That makes it even worse.

Were they during Covid though? Only one parent was permitted to stay because of Covid. Access and entry to hospitals was strictly controlled.

Those of us brought up in the 40’s and 50’s know what freezing cold houses were like - damp, chilly, - no toys, restricted food, pea souper fogs, - so therefore we had to make do ourselves. We couldn’t blame anyone else or ask anyone for help.

Statista.com shows Child mortality rate (under five years old) in the United Kingdom from 1800 to 2020 in the chart I have posted. Just look at the differences montymops . You might remember these times but the world has moved on and it is because we have that it is such a travesty. We are supposed to be a civilised society where people of all cultures are supposed to be given the same care regardless of language spoken or ethnic origin. The fact that you are happy to blame the parents even though reports have shown they tried to get help says far more about you than it does them.

The victimes are this family - all three of them. I am appalled that people can actually write on here trying to blame them in any way for their tragedy caused by dreadfully inadequate housing. Theyknew it was, they did jsut about everything possible to get it taken notice of - this was accepted by the Coroners court, theyw ere just ignored time and time again.

Back in past when I was small, Oh, Yes, lots and lots of inadequate housing and it caused so very much illness and fatality amongst children. I had hoped and thought we had moved forward in this country from the post-war years.

Montymops. To address your points; you are an example of what is called survivor bias, ie you can ramble on about the good old days of damp, poor quality housing, but those who dies of bronchitis, repeated chest infections are not here to speak as the chart posted by icanhandthemback illustrates so well

The H.Assn guy has been sacked.
Gove had called him in to account for his leadership on this matter on Thursday & this announcement has just been made.

Glorianny

Callistemon21

She has limited English skills

Translators are available in the NHS.
That makes it even worse.

Were they during Covid though? Only one parent was permitted to stay because of Covid. Access and entry to hospitals was strictly controlled.

Oh dear, yes course.

Thank you for pointing out those stats icanhandtheback we cannot equate living standards now with the 40s and 50s.
Another misconception montymops is using bleach to treat mould in homes. It isn’t recommended.

We have rental properties and always leave a house in a condition that we would live in ourselves because we want people to enjoy our homes. This would never have happened in one of ours. I think the mould was on another scale to just needing venting and a window open and I’m not blaming the family of that little angel in any way. It’s heartbreaking nothing was done.

We have awful problems with people not opening their windows a touch because mould can’t really form in a well ventilated room unless there is a major leak somewhere.
I think we are going to have a lot of issues with mould this winter with people struggling to pay their fuel bills and keeping windows closed to keep warm.
We have a property a couple have just moved out of and he complained about mould around the windows. The agent did the leaving report and said but you need to open windows and he said but it’s cold. He is a doctor. Windows have been on vent now they have gone and the mould is dying. DH will be going in to redecorate. If a Dr can’t open a window when he knows the dangers of mould what can we do. Everyone gets a leaflet from us about the importance of ventilation.

Modern double glazed windows have trickle vents in the top to give some ventilation without the need to always open the window, but I guess it’s still possible to close them. We leave ours open.

The coroner ruled that little Awaab died due to a severe respiratory condition caused by prolonged exposure to mould in the child’s home environment.
It’s possible - perhaps that the limitations imposed during the pandemic (such as having to use translation services via phones at the hospital, lockdown restrictions keeping children indoors, launderettes being closed, etc may have added to this developing tragedy, but the primary cause- was the deadly mould. Reports in the papers show the parents tried to get help for years to first treat the mould then try to get rehoused.
Mould and damp needs to be taken seriously.

Mould and damp needs to be taken seriously
Hear hear.

VioletSky Tue 15-Nov-22 22:36:33
'There is no way that amount of damp was caused by one family unless they left the shower on 24/7, never had a radiator on and never opened a door

That's ridiculous'

No - I think it's quite possible - although they can't be blamed. My son's flat was rented out. He registered as a landlord, followed all the regulations and employed a rental management firm (in charge of maintenance and inspections) for 16% of the rent - and was living abroad. A chap went to complete the annual boiler service - and was horrified at the amount of black mould. The couple living there had a very young baby, so the heating engineer took the time and trouble to contact my son directly. The couple were from Africa, only recently in the UK, concerned about the cold - so had blocked all the ventilation and were drying clothes indoors. They simply didn't understand why air vents, a tumble drier - and continuous trickle ventilation was needed. Legally (due to Covid) inspections weren't mandatory and he couldn't evict them. He paid them (a lot) to move out - then forked out for all the cleaning and redecorating. It all happened in less than a year!

If thy didn't use available ventilation when they were desperate and begging for help, that seems odd

VioletSky Tue 15-Nov-22 22:36:33
'There is no way that amount of damp was caused by one family unless they left the shower on 24/7, never had a radiator on and never opened a door

That's ridiculous'

I agree.
Once it's got a hold, it just grows and grows if there is a structural fault.

ShazzaKanazza, they blocked the airbricks below floor level too, to stop draughts. I've noticed, since then, a couple of local rented houses are the same. These older (1930s) places rely on plenty of ventilation to prevent damp and rotting timbers.

So, nobody from any of the agencies could have ensured the couple understood properly what was explained?

Half an hour, then they could have monitored the situation at least, particularly if the fault laid with the couples.

Seems strange, because if I was that landlord my main priority would to stop further damage being done.

I'm not blaming the tenants, or what they did (or didn't) do. It was the HA/landlord's responsibility to ensure that the property was up to standard. I do understand how easily the situation could have developed, though.

I do hope other tenants will now speak up to support this couple. (If it is warranted)

Surely this property had at least sporadic inspections done?

I wonder - did inspections for social housing stop during the early part of the pandemic?

Out of the blue two weeks ago our HA rang to say they were coming to fit vents in the eaves to ensure that we didn’t suffer from mould. I do wonder if that was as a result of this case. We didn’t suffer from mould until they started investment work - ‘upgrading’ our windows to triple glazed that were so badly fitted the curtains blow in the wind, and trickle vents that haven’t been used in private installs for 40 years due to their inefficiency; removal of storage heaters which ensured heat most of the day; more insulation. Our house is ventilated and heated but has suffered from mould following these upgrades and the HA refused to listen to us about it.

I think it was terribly sad what happened to that beautiful little boy and I’m glad the council leader has been sacked rather than left in place to ‘address the issues’ which would not have happened. But I also listened to their lawyers statement after the verdict where she said that they had been put into inadequate accommodation and their concerns not listened to etc because they were asylum seekers. Which is such an unfair statement because I know of loads of British people living in housing association housing in a city (not saying which) that is full of damp and in need of repairs that are not done. That sort of talk will just get all the lefties on their soap boxes again.

former employee speaking to and verified by sky news, says there was a total disregard for tenants at the HA.
he says it needs to be abolished and a new one take over. new personnel and attitudes and policies.

Sometimes mould is more or less permanent ,especially in older houses. We stayed in a hotel on Norfolk Island and it smelled strongly of mould and we were stuck there with Covid for a week. Both our symptoms were no doubt worsened by the air in there. Apparently most of the rooms were the same because of the climate. If a place isn’t built with sufficient ventilation you are going to get mould, it can happen very quickly. It is so sad that no one told this family of the dangers of not ventilating a living area and the fault lies with the owners / council for that but it is not a totally straightforward issue. Rarely is. I am sure it will happen again somewhere and probably the causes will not even be diagnosed.

I was very remiss about not opening my windows in winter when it was very cold. A scientist friend put me straight over this during covid. They're now opened 1" daily.