Healthcare. Is this he thin edge of the wedge?

Growstuff when I was diagnosed with breast cancer I had 2 mammograms, an ultrasound, a CT scan and an MRI. This was all on the NHS. They were hardly making money out of me. It was standard procedure!

B9exchange

The NHS is not free, it never has been, but the NI contributions that were supposed to fund it have never been ring fenced, and modern treatments and drugs are so expensive that some form of rationing is needed (and indeed being brought in, no hip replacements for the obese etc) or we will have to go down the route of extra health insurance to top it up.

As mentioned above, the last thing the NHS needs is yet another layer of administration to manage contributions towards hospital food.

I agree about admin for NHS food. It would be an absolute nightmare.

As for rationing, I wonder how many people would really be happy if they were told that treatments and drugs wouldn't be available, if (for example) they are over a certain age. I can't remember the exact figure, but more money is spent on people in the last year or so of their lives. What about stopping trying to save premature babies? Or disabled people, who can't work anyway? The NHS could save billions, if it stopped treating people who aren't expected to live longer than (say) five years - not that I'm suggesting it, but that's what people are saying when they talk about efficiency. I find it horrifying. If we want a health system which treats everybody, we have to pay for it.

dragonfly46

Growstuff when I was diagnosed with breast cancer I had 2 mammograms, an ultrasound, a CT scan and an MRI. This was all on the NHS. They were hardly making money out of me. It was standard procedure!

I'm not talking about NHS patients.

I had more than that because my cancer was quite rare and I hate to think how much it cost.

I think if the better off do have to pay they should be able to take out insurance with employers paying half. This system works well in the Netherlands. Retired people do not pay.

I would have fewer issues with a private system if it were wholly private. If it trained its own staff, ran its own clinics and didn't use NHS equipment or allow people to pay for a consultation and then queue jump onto NHS treatment.

That won't happen, of course, for all sorts of reasons, so therefore I am very much against it.

In the Netherlands everyone uses the same hospitals, staff etc but those earning above a certain amount pay into a health insurance. It works extremely well. There are no private hospitals and in the same way there are no private schools.
Btw taxes and National Insurance are higher than here providing better health care for all.

dragonfly Do those who have paid get preferential treatment in any way?

growstuff

Urmstongran

Actually not a bad idea to charge for food whilst in hospital! Even a nominal sum of £1 a day would help the coffers as in-patients would be eating at home anyway. Probably get told now it would be too bureaucratic. Seems most ideas seem to get labelled that way these days.

Not if the food is anything like I've experienced!

Last time I was in hospital my partner was sent off to the onsite M & S Simply Food to buy me something to eat. I was starving after having fasted 18 hours and there was nothing on the menu I could eat.

My nightmare is that I will end up in hospital and not be able to eat anything. I have even told my doctor that I dread the thought of it.

There is (currently) no reason why I should be in hospital. My notes would tell them what my issues are, but I still dread the thought of being force fed "hospital" food - and then being ill because of it.

We definitely have a 2 tier system here in Australia. Lots of private hospitals too. If you are what they think of as rich you have to pay a health levy if you choose not to take out private health cover. Private health cover doesn’t actually cover you for that much, you still have to pay the difference between what the hospitals charge and what the insurance will pay you back. Not good.

Posted on social media today after the BBC story about the wealthy paying for healthcare.
Not exact but I cant find the post.The SNP government will not be charging ANYONE for healthcare we are committed to the original ethos of an accessable NHS free at point of use.This is why we have Free prescriptions ,free eye and dental checks ,free dental care for young people and free personal care for the elderly ;
This exact same statement was made and braodcast before the 2014 referendum by Jackie Baillie(labour) as part of the fear tactics of the Better Together campaign .It wasn't true then and its not true now ."

The BBC should be held to account for broadcasting scare stories that they know to be lies.Sadly so many people believed them that they would lose their pensions and we would have to leave the EU if we voted yes that we lost .
Look how that turned out !!
I'll be as TRIBAL as I like thank you ,I'm sick of the lies and misinformation thats on here particularly from "URM* Who seems to believe she knows more about Scotland than the Scots .If these were all True would Nicola Sturgeon be on her 5TH Prime Minister since she been in office? WE really arent stupid unlike some other parts of the DIS united kingdom

Growstuff no everyone gets exactly the same treatment, same doctors, hospitals, beds etc. it is just in some cases the state pays and in others the compulsory insurance pays. Generally your employer pays half of your insurance.

You seem mighty cross paddyanne. It can’t be good for your blood pressure! I was talking to my stepfather on Sunday about ‘matters SNP’. He takes a pragmatic viewpoint really but is definitely not a fan of that party. He thinks the tide is turning for their support. He feels she’s missed the boat regarding Indy2 as cracks in their competence are not only widening but becoming apparent to more voters now and good governance has been missing for a while now. Hey ho.
Time will tell I suppose.

dragonfly46

Growstuff no everyone gets exactly the same treatment, same doctors, hospitals, beds etc. it is just in some cases the state pays and in others the compulsory insurance pays. Generally your employer pays half of your insurance.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't have a problem with that. In many ways that's what the tax system could achieve, with higher earners paying more.

I noted that taxes and national insurance are higher. If we want to keep a modern health service for everybody (and I'm not sure everybody does) with no queue jumping, that's what needs to happen in the UK.

It seems a good system dragonfly not to have private hospital but all use the same ones as let’s face it, if anything urgently goes wrong after a private appointment, where do the patients go? The good old NHS A&E departments of course as private hospitals don’t have them!

Jaxjacky

A proposal mooted by a phone in caller to the radio was to stop free prescriptions for all in Scotland, I didn’t hear any figures on how much that would save.

It would save almost nothing and in some years cost more.

One of the conditions on the prescription service in Scotland was that it had to be cost-neutral.

All the that the 10% who actually pay in England do is to fund the system that figures out who should pay and who should not. The real political question is why the Westminster government are keeping a paid prescription service in England?

Just to add to my post - when I was referred to a specialist in Holland by my GP I saw him the next day.

Our recent family experience of private health care had the steam blasting from my ears. My adult son has an ongoing eye problem and attends a specialist eye clinic. He had a worsening of the problem and his GP advised he needed seen urgently at the eye clinic. GP phoned to try to book and was told the clinic was fully booked. He told my son he was concerned that a delay would cause worsening of the eye problem and suggested if he could afford it he should book a private appointment.

Fast forward 48 hours and my son has his private appointment. In the clinic that was fully booked and with the NHS consultant he normally attends!

PaddyAnne54 it was also discussed on ITV this morning if the wealthier should contribute more to Scotlands NHS

Surely both Media outlets cannot be wrong?

It’s in the Daily Mail on line too this morning.
I get it - how do they fill a black hole? It’s a suggestion to be discussed along with others. But it was a surprise all the same as it goes against the ethos of being ‘free at the point of need’, which I why I asked “is this the thin end of the wedge?”.

It was discussed. It hasn't happened. The FM says it won't happen. Why the fuss? Petera is correct about free prescriptions being cost neutral so there's a good idea that can be implemented in all of the four nations.

Urmstongran

It’s in the Daily Mail on line too this morning.
I get it - how do they fill a black hole? It’s a suggestion to be discussed along with others. But it was a surprise all the same as it goes against the ethos of being ‘free at the point of need’, which I why I asked “is this the thin end of the wedge?”.

The GP on this morning thought that those earning over £100,000 should pay an extra health tax .

The A & E doctor was against this despite seeing more and more patients who couldn’t get GP appointments and were contributing to waiting times and 999 calls.

Grannynannywanny

Our recent family experience of private health care had the steam blasting from my ears. My adult son has an ongoing eye problem and attends a specialist eye clinic. He had a worsening of the problem and his GP advised he needed seen urgently at the eye clinic. GP phoned to try to book and was told the clinic was fully booked. He told my son he was concerned that a delay would cause worsening of the eye problem and suggested if he could afford it he should book a private appointment.

Fast forward 48 hours and my son has his private appointment. In the clinic that was fully booked and with the NHS consultant he normally attends!

"the NHS cannot pay for or subsidise your private hospital treatment. there must be as clear a separation as possible between your private treatment and your NHS treatment. your position on an NHS waiting list should not be affected if you choose to have a private consultation." NHS uk website.

My understanding is that if your son was seen privately at an NHS clinic the consultant was behaving dishonestly.

My understanding is that if your son was seen privately at an NHS clinic the consultant was behaving dishonestly.

Not necessarily foxie. Back in the day (don’t know recently I’ve been retired 8 years) some consultants would see private patients at the end of their NHS clinic sessions after an agreement from the hospital Trust by paying a sum to cover use of the room in the out patient department.

Urmstongran

^My understanding is that if your son was seen privately at an NHS clinic the consultant was behaving dishonestly.^

Not necessarily foxie. Back in the day (don’t know recently I’ve been retired 8 years) some consultants would see private patients at the end of their NHS clinic sessions after an agreement from the hospital Trust by paying a sum to cover use of the room in the out patient department.

Urmstongran is correct, that is still the case. A clinic on NHS premises can be mixed private and NHS, the consultant pays for the use of the room, and uses his private secretary to arrange appointments, private case notes etc. and the patient pays for any tests which arise out of the private appointment.

Thank you for the clarification Casdon. It’s good to clear up these misconceptions, otherwise people understandably get cross.