A boost for Brexit?

BTW What about trades*women*?

Unfortunately, there aren't too many well paid traditional female trades jobs.

Let’s face it, the chances of finding a Brexit bonus are so small there’s more chance of finding Lord Lucan , the Brexit barrels have already been scraped. Starmer is trying to get ahead of the Tory accusations that he is soft on immigration, and Brexit is not to be mentioned. At least he managed to give a coherent speech and even managed a Peppa Pig joke. There’s nothing inherently wrong with saying we must improve wages and training in this country, we’ve lagged behind for too long, due to the inequalities inherent in British society and Thatcher's destruction of our manufacturing base, not because of EU membership. Renationalise our railways and utilities should be on his list too.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff there is nothing wrong with learning a trade, we all need tradesmen at some time and other.

I agree with you, but until you can persuade parents of pupils at public schools to learn a trade as an alternative to going to the City or becoming a barrister, I believe that every pupil should have the right to aspire to join them ... and that's going to mean going to university.

In fairness, going to public school these days does not automatically give you a job for life in the city, you have to perform and do the job better than the state school oik sitting alongside you . What public school gets you is a better chance to prove how good you are, if you don’t do the job you are out.

Then it’s out into the job market to use your posh accent where someone will employ you as an Estate Agent, or maybe daddy lets you manage the family estate.

Interesting how different things are here. Plumbers and electricians have very, very good wages. Far better than the average academic and good for them. People will pay because they need them.

growstuff

BTW What about trades*women*?

Unfortunately, there aren't too many well paid traditional female trades jobs.

Sorry Growstuff we have many female electricians, plumbers and site workers as customers.

There are female mechanics at the dealership our vehicles come from.

nanna8

Interesting how different things are here. Plumbers and electricians have very, very good wages. Far better than the average academic and good for them. People will pay because they need them.

Plumbers and electricians earn extremely well in the U.K. as do good bricklayers.

Unfortunately there are still some that look down on tradessomething I find extraordinary as we all need them. They build our houses, sort them out when things go wrong.

We are always grateful when Tradesmen recommend our business it pays the bills.

growstuff

BTW What about trades*women*?

Unfortunately, there aren't too many well paid traditional female trades jobs.

I made good money nursing, others I know doing well are doctors, accountants and hairdressers. Really any kind of admin job, management is difficult if you have a family because you have to be there before the troops to organize them.

The health service is good because it’s family friendly and you have flexibility. I don’t know any women that are plumbers, builders or car mechanics, why would you want to do dirty heavy, outdoor work but each to their own.

In my younger days (!) political leaders did just that: they led. They took a view on policy and sought to persuade the electorate to their way of thinking rather than listening to focus groups, spin doctors and even their own Parties. Remember Gaitskell's 'fight and fight again' or Blair's comment that he ' led his Party' unlike Major. Starmer is terrified of the Northern working class pro-Brexiteers and anti-immigration thinkers ('they steal our jobs', etc.) and Sunak (on the Right himself) is hostage to the loony Right on Brexit (and now in trouble with even moderate Tories over the obvious need for more house building). They both need to get on their feet, open their mouths and lead their Parties. Brexit has failed to deliver anything worthwhile and with an ageing population we need immigrants to do all kinds of jobs now, not in some mythical future where non-existent British workers will be upskilled. Does Starmer really want sick people (with long Covid problems, for example) to be forced back to work. What does his CBI speech imply about the general value of immigration which has contributed mightily to the UK over centuries?

Starmer did say that he was pragmatic about immigration, but his speech has gone down really badly. He is so dogmatic about the EU, immigration, working with other parties, Scottish independence etc. that he's turning off Labour voters left right and centre. I have tried so hard to go along with the 'bad' because we desperately need to get rid of the tories, but he's not doing the party any favours.
I wonder if he thinks that being 'decisive' makes him look like a strong leader..

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff there is nothing wrong with learning a trade, we all need tradesmen at some time and other.

I agree with you, but until you can persuade parents of pupils at public schools to learn a trade as an alternative to going to the City or becoming a barrister, I believe that every pupil should have the right to aspire to join them ... and that's going to mean going to university.

When we were in our early twenties we briefly shared a flat with a dance student. He was educated at Eton up to A level and then went to art school. He founded his own company but was also director of one of the renowned English companies and is very well known to those who enjoy contemporary dance. We were living in Kensington at the time and he would occasionally bump into former pupils. They would tell him what they were doing (usually wine merchant) and when he told them they would say"Oh" and quickly disappear.

growstuff

BTW What about trades*women*?

Unfortunately, there aren't too many well paid traditional female trades jobs.

My friends who live in London use a female plumber who is well paid.

There seems to be a different attitude to trades people here in France in that people mix with others depending upon their interests, experience and knowledge rather than upon their status. We know a female roofer and stone wall repairer. She is tiny and agile, also a grandmother. She also plays classical guitar and reads Mark Twain, in English. How many Brits read Mark Twain?

growstuff

BTW What about trades*women*?

Unfortunately, there aren't too many well paid traditional female trades jobs.

The "traditional females trades" dissappeared long ago and now women can and do follow any trade they like. Discrimination in the workplace is rare and frowned on by both men and women. Discrimination in the social world is common and I am ashamed to admit it is mainly against men.

Jackiest

growstuff

BTW What about trades*women*?

Unfortunately, there aren't too many well paid traditional female trades jobs.

The "traditional females trades" dissappeared long ago and now women can and do follow any trade they like. Discrimination in the workplace is rare and frowned on by both men and women. Discrimination in the social world is common and I am ashamed to admit it is mainly against men.

Really? I know of a former female pupil who trained as a carpenter and went into business with her father. I have never once had a female plumber, electrician or heating engineer. Girls don't tend to sign up for FE engineering courses either. There's no reason why girls can't do those trades, but I bet you anything there aren't many.

Next time you go past roadworks, count the number of female workers.

Dinahmo

There seems to be a different attitude to trades people here in France in that people mix with others depending upon their interests, experience and knowledge rather than upon their status. We know a female roofer and stone wall repairer. She is tiny and agile, also a grandmother. She also plays classical guitar and reads Mark Twain, in English. How many Brits read Mark Twain?

That's my experience too. A few years ago, I taught a girl who had been raised in France. She couldn't understand why people raised an eyebrow when she said she wanted to be a car mechanic.

I also think the attitude is different in Germany, where everybody does post-16/18 training. A friend of mine has a brilliant German au pair, who did a three year housekeeping course.

Dinahmo

There seems to be a different attitude to trades people here in France in that people mix with others depending upon their interests, experience and knowledge rather than upon their status. We know a female roofer and stone wall repairer. She is tiny and agile, also a grandmother. She also plays classical guitar and reads Mark Twain, in English. How many Brits read Mark Twain?

Or Balzac, Hugo or even Sagan?

Come to think of it, I wonder how many Brits could name any French writers.

growstuff

Next time you go past roadworks, count the number of female workers.

Yes there are fewer women than men. Women have free choice to do whatever trade they like. If few choose to do these trades they should not be forced to. I would not want to work out in the cold and rain. As time goes on probably more will choose them. I have noticed that a couple of my rufuse collectors are women. Things are changeing.

Quite normal in Russia (and in the Soviet Union) to see women mending the roads and doing other outdoor, heavy jobs. Also seen in India. Equality of opportunity, I suppose. Our recent roof renovation saw a female glazier come to help the builders. I'm surprised there aren't more women plumbers and electricians.

I don’t think too many are going to want the work women do in India, labouring on building sites and road repair, living in a camp alongside the road with the children running in the gutter.

Katie59

I don’t think too many are going to want the work women do in India, labouring on building sites and road repair, living in a camp alongside the road with the children running in the gutter.

I don't think that anyone is expected to work under those conditions in the UK, Katie59.

Still looking around without much hope of spotting a brexit benefit.

Not one.

Not a single one.

Even Rees Mogg, the then "Minister for Brexit opportunities" was so incapable of actually identifying a "brexit opportunity" that he resorted to appealing to the readers of "The Sun" to spot any "brexit opportunities". Apparently none did.

Says it all.

I've not been able to spot any actual unicorns recently either.

Not exactly encouraging news for Leavers

ukandeu.ac.uk/rejoin-vs-stay-out-who-has-changed-their-mind-about-brexit/

Moliere. I'll never forget him. French A Level.

Jackiest

growstuff

Next time you go past roadworks, count the number of female workers.

Yes there are fewer women than men. Women have free choice to do whatever trade they like. If few choose to do these trades they should not be forced to. I would not want to work out in the cold and rain. As time goes on probably more will choose them. I have noticed that a couple of my rufuse collectors are women. Things are changeing.

I wonder why they don't choose these trades when they are generally better paid than traditionally female "trades".