“Scottish government loses indyref2 court case”

Well, it's all very interesting.

😁

Vover, actually you're incorrect. I am not against independence I'm just waiting for the fiscal report that says we can go it alone and be successful including giving our citizens a decent life. However, if you look at the debt the SNP has got us into it's highly unlikely we will be a rich, or even semi rich nation. We won't be part of the EU and, no matter what the SNP bleat on about, whisky will not sustain us and they have brought no major industry to Scotland to help. Let's hope the scales fall from your eyes, hen.

And where does it say there that it was the sole reason to change the rhetoric?

Is it right next to the bit that says 2 + 2 =5?

Perhaps I read it in a newspaper somewhere.

It could have been the Guardian, I remember several well-known Scots claiming that Brexit had made all the difference.

Oh, no, I remember, it was Nicola Sturgeon!

We are now faced with a hard Brexit against our will, at the worst possible time in the middle of a pandemic and economic recession. It will mean disruption in the short term, while establishing new, long-term barriers. Our people will be less safe and their right to work, study and live elsewhere in Europe will be restricted. This includes the loss of Erasmus which saw more than 2,000 Scottish students, staff and learners use the scheme each year.

It is therefore not surprising that a consistent majority of people in Scotland now say they are in favor of becoming an independent country

As an independent member of the European Union, Scotland would be a partner and a bridge-builder — not just a bridge to building a stronger economy and fairer society, but a bridge to aid understanding between the EU and U.K.

More and more people in Scotland believe our aspirations can best be met by continuing to contribute to the shared endeavor and solidarity that the EU represents. Because of Brexit, we can now only do this as an independent member state in our own right. We have been inside the European Union family of nations for nearly 50 years. We didn’t want to leave and we hope to join you again soon as an equal partner as we face the opportunities and challenges of the future together.

Who told you that?

But it's not the sole reason to change the rhetoric, as we were told?

Every little helps.

Leaving the EU, Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and all that jazz are just distractions

Oh 🤔
I thought we kept being told that, although Scotland voted against independence in 2014, the UK voting to leave the EU in 2016 had given Scots the impetus to revitalise the calls for independence?

It's not about what the SNP wants. Well it is, sort of in that it's what the SNP's members want, and the SNP is about collating those wants and giving them a unified (for some values of "unified"). The SNP forms the Scottish government and holds 44 of the 59 Scottish seats at Westminster because those wants are held by a very substantial number of Scots, which you can't easily dismiss.

Yes, Daddima, funnily enough the clue's in the name! There's still more to running a country than emphasising independence, though.

deedee27

NS is on the record pre-Covid stating that it’d take a decade for Scotland to reduce its debt enough to join the EU.
Scotland doesn’t own the oil and gas- the exploitation licenses were sold off. All the UK gets is the tax…
Scotland has little left to sell internationally- no manufacturing base, financial services in decline because of Brexit & the SNP making embarrassing mistakes in their management of certain large projects eg ferries, Edinburgh children’s hospital, aluminium smelting factory investment etc etc doesn’t look good for the future.
Then of course there’s the UK public sector and how to extricate Scotland from that, how the pensioners will be paid….etc etc
It’s not a simple as made out and has echoes of the exit from EU… it’s all about the economy…

Och. I'm just in the mood...

NS is on the record pre-Covid stating that it’d take a decade for Scotland to reduce its debt enough to join the EU. And...?

Scotland doesn’t own the oil and gas the exploitation licenses were sold off. All the UK gets is the tax… The Scottish government cares more about the environment that making $$$ for the O&G industry.

Scotland has little left to sell internationally except whisky, high end food products, the space industry, the games industry, renewables, tourism, education provision.....

Then of course there’s the UK public sector and how to extricate Scotland from that, We'll build our own. That'll be fun.

how the pensioners will be paid with revenues from the industries I listed above

It’s not a simple as made out Nobody's made it out to be easy. Nobody at all. Nothing worth doing ever is.

stewaris

Independence is the whole raison d'etre of the SNP. However, considering their performance over the last few years people need to get a grip and realise they will do nothing to improve the life of Scots. Dare I suggest a look at their performance includes the QEUH and the contaminated water that cost patient lives, the Royal Hospital for Sick Kids in Edinburgh that had the same problem and opened very late, the Greensill scandal that they kept very quiet about but Gupta, who bought the aluminium smelter plant and received financing from Greensill, was up to his neck in that scandal with Scottish taxpayers set to lose £284m with 20 years of a guarantee left to run, the ferries, Peter Murrell and the missing ring fenced £600k for independence. When will people wake up to the corruption that is within the SNP. I can provide all the links but before you give me pelters, a Scottish expression, do a little homework, look it all up and maybe the scales will fall from your eyes. Oh, and the Scottish people had an independence vote in 2014 which was rejected. Let's hope the SNP are as magnanimous and if a vote goes against the Union we can have as many chances as they want to amke sure we do.

Once more with feeling...

Once Scotland gets its independence there is no rule that says the SNP will be in charge. They probably won't be because they will have achieved their aim and will ride off into the sunset.

Folk really need to try to appreciate there is a difference between the performance of a specific political party and a change to the way a country is governed.

There's some pelters for you, quine. Maybe it will help the scales fall from your eyes. Not hopeful, though.

NS is on the record pre-Covid stating that it’d take a decade for Scotland to reduce its debt enough to join the EU.
Scotland doesn’t own the oil and gas- the exploitation licenses were sold off. All the UK gets is the tax…
Scotland has little left to sell internationally- no manufacturing base, financial services in decline because of Brexit & the SNP making embarrassing mistakes in their management of certain large projects eg ferries, Edinburgh children’s hospital, aluminium smelting factory investment etc etc doesn’t look good for the future.
Then of course there’s the UK public sector and how to extricate Scotland from that, how the pensioners will be paid….etc etc
It’s not a simple as made out and has echoes of the exit from EU… it’s all about the economy…

Independence is the whole raison d'etre of the SNP. However, considering their performance over the last few years people need to get a grip and realise they will do nothing to improve the life of Scots. Dare I suggest a look at their performance includes the QEUH and the contaminated water that cost patient lives, the Royal Hospital for Sick Kids in Edinburgh that had the same problem and opened very late, the Greensill scandal that they kept very quiet about but Gupta, who bought the aluminium smelter plant and received financing from Greensill, was up to his neck in that scandal with Scottish taxpayers set to lose £284m with 20 years of a guarantee left to run, the ferries, Peter Murrell and the missing ring fenced £600k for independence. When will people wake up to the corruption that is within the SNP. I can provide all the links but before you give me pelters, a Scottish expression, do a little homework, look it all up and maybe the scales will fall from your eyes. Oh, and the Scottish people had an independence vote in 2014 which was rejected. Let's hope the SNP are as magnanimous and if a vote goes against the Union we can have as many chances as they want to amke sure we do.

Whitewavemark2

The question is with what? Her power to bring independence doesn’t exist.

Her energy would be better used to promote Scotland within the union.

To say that just demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what independence and the SNP are all about WWM2. The founding principle of the SNP is to make Scotland an independent country. That's why they exist. Nobody is going to say, "ah well, the law we have today won't let us have a referendum, we'll just give up then."

Her "power" to bring independence is given by the people, not by anything else. Not everybody who votes SNP wants independence. Not everybody who wants independence votes SNP. But one thing is for sure; nobody votes SNP without knowing that they are the party of independence. Vote SNP, or Scottish Green or Alba, and independence debates will be front and centre. And enough people vote SNP, Scottish Green or Alba, to have independence in the frame all the time.

Leaving the EU, Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and all that jazz are just distractions. They are examples of things that will happen to us because we are not independent. Giving us bits back won't help. Because we still won't be independent.

Ask the SNP to not try for independence, but to make the union all nice and comfy and non-threatening? As well ask a leopard to change its spots.

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

The question is with what? Her power to bring independence doesn’t exist.

Her energy would be better used to promote Scotland within the union.

And helping to work towards the CU and Single Market?

Yes! It is at least a step towards what the SNP want.

Septimia

I said what eazybee said on a previous thread and got shot down in flames! It does affect us all.

DH has been reading about the background to indyref2 and says that all the SNP's efforts (and money) have gone into that while things like the NHS have gone down the pan. NS has a bee in her bonnet about independence and seems incapable of thinking about anything else.

A ‘bee in her bonnet’? Does your ‘DH’ realise that the cause of Scottish independence is what the SNP stands for? It’s the whole reason the Scottish National Party exists, to allow the Scottish people a say in their own future.

Independence will come and Tories both side of the Border make a stronger case for it every day !

Whitewavemark2

The question is with what? Her power to bring independence doesn’t exist.

Her energy would be better used to promote Scotland within the union.

And helping to work towards the CU and Single Market?

The question is with what? Her power to bring independence doesn’t exist.

Her energy would be better used to promote Scotland within the union.

She has to keep the SNP fans going.

NS has nothing to boil.

The rug has been pulled out from under her feet now.

Sturgeon is herself a lawyer.
She must have known deep down that applying for a judgement from the Supreme Court was spurious at best. She does however keep the pot boiling and I do have to hand it to her, she’s a very shrewd politician.

Or piste-off

Or not-ski