“Scottish government loses indyref2 court case”

I do think though if there is another referendum (unlikely) then the whole of the U.K. should vote on the decision, as it will affect us all.

Democracy is important.

Whitewavemark2

I do think though if there is another referendum (unlikely) then the whole of the U.K. should vote on the decision, as it will affect us all.

Democracy is important.

Sorry, I was just going to leave, but just before I go...

aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!

To quote that old chestnut...is that why the people of Lithuania got a vote on Brexit?

Self-determination and the ability to decide our own future is important.

volver

Whitewavemark2

I do think though if there is another referendum (unlikely) then the whole of the U.K. should vote on the decision, as it will affect us all.

Democracy is important.

Sorry, I was just going to leave, but just before I go...

aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!

To quote that old chestnut...is that why the people of Lithuania got a vote on Brexit?

Self-determination and the ability to decide our own future is important.

More to the point, is that why Russia got a vote on Lithuanian independence?

Didn't they have a referendum about 10 years ago and lost. Are they going to keep on trying every few years until they get the result they want. Could take a lot time.

volver

Whitewavemark2

I do think though if there is another referendum (unlikely) then the whole of the U.K. should vote on the decision, as it will affect us all.

Democracy is important.

Sorry, I was just going to leave, but just before I go...

aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!

To quote that old chestnut...is that why the people of Lithuania got a vote on Brexit?

Self-determination and the ability to decide our own future is important.

Yes I agree, that is why we should all get the vote, as you say self determination (whether to stay as a union or not) and as a consequence the ability to determine our own future is important.

I feel very strongly that the union should remain. I understand that many of the arguments, - Westminster centred, Brexit etc are important, but in the scheme of things these too will change and I feel we are stronger United.

We are a United group of nations held together by the rule of law.

I think your Lithuania argument is spurious.

Doodledog

Can this work? Surely if people want to have a referendum it's up to them? I could organise one for my street to say we want a Christmas tree at the end.

Nobody has to abide by the results (I doubt th council would cough up for a tree), but it would be a lot more difficult for Westminster to refuse to acknowledge an overwhelming Yes or Sturgeon to refuse to listen to a No.

I have a lot of connections to Scotland, and don't want to see a split on a personal level. I also think that the UK is better sticking together, particularly as we have isolated ourselves so much with the dreaded Brexit; but if our Scottish friends want to leave I don't see how the government can stop them, short of going back to border wars or something.

Doodledog I am very happy about the Supreme Court's decision as I have no doubt are the majority of the Scottish people.

Since the 2014 Referendum in which SNP lost the vote Nicola Sturgeon has let Scotland down very badly in the her running of the country. As you will probably be aware our NHS is in a crippling stage as is our rail company....also the carnage that has been made of the new ferry builds and the complete loss over the years of heavy industry for which we were famous....and much more. Everything this woman gets involved in turns into complete failures. She is hell bent on breaking up the United Kingdom at any cost...and I do mean any cost. The millions of £ her Administration received during Covid has not yet all been put to where it was meant....but will she give an explanation as to where the balance has gone. Probably into the coffers to pay for her future Referendum.

She does not have as much support as her fake polls report and I have no doubt whatsoever that if we had a Referendum tomorrow she would lose again. A big number of her followers are the unemployed receiving benefits and she has brainwashed them into believing how wonderful Scotland will be on its own standing. The remainder of her followers to me need a brain transplant.

Scotland would not have been able to provide its people with all the Covid inoculations without them being paid for by Westminster....also where the Covid funding cash came from.

She hates all things English but kept her begging hand stretched out for more and more cash from the UK Gov..... never once in her speeches acknowledging any of this aid. Nicola Sturgeon is under the impression that she is a world leader and acts as if she has already achieved Independence.

I listened to her on yesterday's First Minister's Questions and according to her no one at all can stop Scotland being independent and that it breaches diplomacy??? Where was the SNP's diplomacy when the Scottish people voted NO in 2014. Immediately after the result they were preparing to have another vote. She does not know the meaning of the word Diplomacy and she is certainly not a Diplomat for Scotland.

Who initiated the matter going to the Supreme Court?? .....Yes the lady herself thinking she was above even it. I just pray she goes down very soon and takes her despicable Health Secretary with her....in fact her whole Administration.

Crikey. Again.

Just popping back in for my brain transplant.

When there is talk of divisiveness in the future, remember this thread and where the vitriol comes from.

When you mention diplomacy OmaforMaya, do you mean democracy?

WWM2

I don't think my Lithuania comment is spurious but I think Lady Honoria's analogy is better than mine.

It's a perfectly valid opinion to approve of the Union. I am not of that opinion. If the vote was UK wide, can you imagine if Scotland voted Yes but the rest of the Union voted No? Then Scotland would be being held in a political Union against its will. That would be terrible, insurrection or civil war or something, I expect.

Brexit is actually irrelevant for me personally. The self determination of my own country is what's relevant.

I think your Lithuania argument is spurious

I'm inclined to agree.

The United Kingdom is one sovereign state.

The European Union is a union of several sovereign states.

If Scotland indicated a strong likelihood that it would vote over say 75% to leave, then I think we should all have to re-think the union, and perhaps come up with a compromise.

I think that, at one point was the nationalists argument, that if there was a vote for leave above 65%? - but it has never happened and is not likely to happen in the near future.

I can quite see why anyone would want to get shot of our abysmal government, I suspect the majority in the U.K. feel the same.

Given the fact that independence is unlikely any time soon, then I think Scotland would be better served by working towards a better Westminster relationship.

I can quite see why anyone would want to get shot of our abysmal government, I suspect the majority in the U.K. feel the same.
It wouldn't be so easy without Scotland's votes.

If it is due to the Brexit effect, what would happen if we were able to rejoin the Single Market?

Yes that has occurred to me callistemon - I mean if we rejoined at least the single market and Custom Union. I’m sure that would mitigate a lot of the irritation.

I think Nicola Sturgeon wants to be Queen of Scotland and won't be happy until she is.
If they become independent they are looking at building borders and customs everywhere to meet EU regs - that's if the EU consent to them becoming a member. Also allowing all EU citizens free entry to Scotland and providing employment or benefits for them and their families. Also sharing their fishing rights. I think Scotland will be a v poor country for quite a few years after independence.
But I am in favour of another referendum.

OmaforMaya I am in no way a fan of the current leadership of the SNP, nor am I in favour of Scotland gaining independence. Whilst I might agree with some of your post, I certainly do not think that there is any truth in your scurrilous third paragraph. The SNP has a broad range of membership, of both sexes and all ages and undoubtedly all academic abilities, and I really don’t understand why anyone would make such vitriolic comments.

Excellent article about democracy and Nicola Sturgeon in the Scottish Legal News today..
www.scottishlegal.com/articles/alistair-bonnington

*Everything this woman gets involved in turns into complete failures. She is hell bent on breaking up the United Kingdom at any cost...and I do mean any cost.

She hates all things English

as her fake polls report

she has brainwashed them

I just pray she goes down very soon and takes her despicable Health Secretary with her....in fact her whole Administration*.

WOW. Bitter or what

“I think Nicola Sturgeon wants to be Queen of Scotland”

And that’s just silly.

Cathymac

Excellent article about democracy and Nicola Sturgeon in the Scottish Legal News today..
www.scottishlegal.com/articles/alistair-bonnington

This Alistair Bonnington? The one who thinks the BBC is pro-SNP biased?

A bit partisan, I think...bless him.

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/bbc-scotland-slavisly-biased-snp-27497155

A lot of voters for SNP do so or have done so due to the competition being so dismal, not necessarily because they vote for independence. Wonder if NS will include the votes for the Green Party who basically make up the numbers and don't seem to do much else. In 2014 a lot of the financial plan for independence was based on offshore oil and gas both of which the SNP want to ban completely. Given there is always an outcry of not enough money from Westminster how is there enough for expensive court cases and campaigns for independence. The SNP must be a very rich party if public funds are not being used. Join the EU inspite of being told it will take many years and then of course all the borders, barriers to contend with and NS will not be in control, it will be the EU even though there is the constant gripe about Scotland being told what to do by Westminster and doesn't like it! Would prefer effort was concentrated on fixing what exists already eg NHS, Education including addressing the violence toward teachers, reducing drug abuse. Actually, same goes for whole of UK.

Yammy more records to be set straight. As far as the activities of the Scottish government are concerned, you may like to have a look at www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws
The teachers' dispute is with Cosla, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. The Scottish government does not run schools. No political party has overall control of any of Scotland's 32 local authorities and the SNP forms part of the controlling group in only 15 of them. Six councils are currently run by Labour-Conservative coalions: hardly on policy grounds so purely to shut out the SNP, who are the largest party in four of those six including Edinburgh. The two main London-based parties agree on one thing: they don't regard the SNP as a legitimate political party and Labour in particular sees them as squattng on their lawn. But anyway, it is not the business of the Scottish government to intervene in negotiations between employees and employers. Nor should it be.

As for the drug problem, well the drug problem in Scotland (and England) pre-dates devolution: see the film Trainspotting for example. The Scottish Government would very much like to take radical steps to prevent deaths due to drug abuse by treating addiction not as a criminal matter but a health issue, providing for example supervised safe spaces for injection and exchanging needles with medical support on hand. But drugs policy is a matter reserved to Westminster, and successive Westminster governments have taken a puritanical view, insisting that anything that would make drug use cleaner and safer would be condoning it, and continuing to take a punitive line against users.

It has long been my considered view that crime could be halved at a stroke and drug-related deaths almost eliminated, by returning to the situation that existed prior to the outbreak of the "war on drugs" in 1969, that GPs could prescribe heroin to registered addicts.

Queen Nichola is a bit fanatical about this independence issue

Back in the heady days of 2014, we were advised to concentrate on the people who were in the middle somewhere. The ones whose opinions might change when all the facts were explained. They were the ones to convince, and that would give us enough. It didn't quite work, but it was good advice.

There are people who are devout Unionists, and there are people who don't really understand the issues and never will. No point in trying to convince them. It'll never get us anywhere.

katy1950

Queen Nichola is a bit fanatical about this independence issue

You've had just over seven and half years since she became first minister to come up with an insult. We can give you a bit more time if you like?

Callistemon21

^I think your Lithuania argument is spurious^

I'm inclined to agree.

The United Kingdom is one sovereign state.

The European Union is a union of several sovereign states.

One of the arguments for leaving (and in fact many leavers still give this as their main argument) was the - clearly false - statement that the UK wasn't a sovereign state while in the EU.

Whitewavemark2

If Scotland indicated a strong likelihood that it would vote over say 75% to leave, then I think we should all have to re-think the union, and perhaps come up with a compromise.

I think that, at one point was the nationalists argument, that if there was a vote for leave above 65%? - but it has never happened and is not likely to happen in the near future.

I can quite see why anyone would want to get shot of our abysmal government, I suspect the majority in the U.K. feel the same.

Given the fact that independence is unlikely any time soon, then I think Scotland would be better served by working towards a better Westminster relationship.

Great comment👍🏻