“Scottish government loses indyref2 court case”

Most of my Scottish friends want independence, I don't think it's any of my business

JaneJudge

Most of my Scottish friends want independence, I don't think it's any of my business

Most of mine don't (well, I don't know anyone who does in RL) but they don't live in Scotland now, so it's opinion only.

I live in Scotland. Nobody I know is pro independence. DH met once met someone who was pro independence but couldn't say why or answer any questions about it. DH had been keen and interested to find out in more detail but only got an emotional rant in response.

I live in Scotland (everyone had probably guessed that. ).

I know people who are pro-independence and people who are anti. Both sides can make their cases pretty well. Some of them rant though, it's true. Both sides.

If your DH is really interested Aveline, I can send him some stuff

Urmstongran

Genuine question.

I don’t remember anything much about Scotland wanting independence before they were given devolved powers by Blair.

Was it such a big thing back then?
Thank you to anyone who knows.

There has always been opposition to the Union, not least when it was first set up in the early eighteenth century. The forerunners to the SNP have existed for at least 100 years, although it's all a bit murky to begin with.

Blair didn't give us devolved powers, there was a referendum which he "allowed" (shadows of today, there) where the majority voted Yes, Yes. I remember it! The second Yes was about tax raising powers.

Since the early seventies the concept of being an independent country again has taken hold; it's like we've realised we can actually do it, we're capable, we just need to think about it. Tom Devine phrased it well in 2004. "The genie is out of the bottle, it's not going back in." (As far as I know he is neither unemployed, on benefits nor in need to a brain transplant.)

Its worth remembering too, the words of Winnie Ewing when the Scottish met in 1999. "...the Scottish Parliament, which adjourned on March 25, 1707, is hereby reconvened."

We never really went away.

So many typos...

in need to of a brain transplant

when the Scottish Parliament met in 1999

Thanks volver it’s good to have a bit of the background to this.
As you say, it’s not going to go away is it?
I do feel that at some stage Indyref2 will take place. It’s just a case of when.
And, for those who don’t want it (independence) I think the T&C of any such referendum will be explicit and binding for a non-negotiable time frame - to prevent all this uncertainty.
What do you think?

The Spanish government has urged Catalan separatists to heed the United Kingdom Supreme Court’s ruling that Nicola Sturgeon cannot hold an independence referendum without the consent of the Westminster parliament.

Interesting.

You're welcome Urmstongran.

I seriously don't know what will happen next. I do think it's a convenient way for Unionists to try to stop anyone talking about independence, to use words like "uncertainty" and "divisive".

Let's just get on with it, whatever "it" is. As long as enough Scots think it's worth voting in an independence-oriented parliament, we'll be talking about it.

With the right structure in place including the requirement for a supermajority as is usual in referenda plus rewording the question I'd rather see a referendum go ahead instead of this current ghastly inefficient mess. Lancing the boil as previously mentioned!

What question would you like Aveline? I can't see past "Should Scotland be an independent country?". That's the question we're trying to answer.

Leave or remain. Keep it straightforward and unemotional.

I’m scared that the vote is for independence and wee nippy sweetly will repatriate me.

🤦🏼‍♀️ On so many levels.

If the majority want independence, next time, there could either be a series of referenda until a majority of 2 is achieved.
Or it could be a bit like that song from Frozen
Let them go, let them go
Don’t hold them back anymore.

Since I’m not from Scotland, it’s not my decision to make. But I do wonder;

1. Will NS or SNP accept a second No vote? or demand yet another referendum until they get the result they want?
2. If the vote is yes, would the majority NS or SNP supports offer to hold another referendum for those who aren’t happy with the second outcome.

Yes, I’d like to know why so much hatred. It’s horrible.
I have family in Scotland who are pro leave. None of them have shown anything like the vitriol that some of you are showing to us English on here! Please aim your hatred at WM not us decent folk. I for one really hope you get what you want. I just find it all terribly sad. 😢

And I'd remind people of all the hatred shown to independence supporters, Scots who are seen as not knowing their place and especially to our elected First Minister. Respect works both ways.

Respect has to be earned

Meaning it's ok to say SNP supporters are brainwashed benefits claimants or need a brain transplant?

Or that Sturgeon has committed fraud with public funds?

I haven’t said any of those things. Fortunately I judge the Scots on those I’ve actually met in real life.

Blair didn't give us devolved powers, there was a referendum which he "allowed" (shadows of today, there) where the majority voted Yes, Yes.

Well, true and there was a non-binding referendum here too. The turnout was 35.2%.
So unrepresentative.

I don’t think anyone thinks all SNP voters are brainwashed benefits claimants! Where did that come from?

Summerfly

I don’t think anyone thinks all SNP voters are brainwashed benefits claimants! Where did that come from?

This thread, yesterday, 14:28.

Whoever wrote that was probably thinking about how the only two areas that had a majority yes vote in 2014 were the areas with highest numbers of benefit claimants: Strathclyde and Dundee.

Hang on Aveline, I'll get you a shovel. Be easier for you to dig that hole.