Reflecting the polls

Listen to the news and read the papers MaizieD, why are all these strikes suddenly coming when the labour think they have a chance with Sunak in charge?

The strikes are coming because working people, particularly those in key worker positions are ground down by 12 years of tory austerity, when their wages have been held down so far that they are now only earning in real terms what they were earning 12 years ago. Many are also being asked to accept worse terms and conditions than those they have been working under for years. Royal Mail employees are, additionally, under threat of 'fire and rehire'.

Yes, I hear the news, I read the papers and I also read all sorts of information that comes my way via the internet. I have also studied history and some economics. What all this tells me is that we are living in a country where conditions are fast approaching those of the Victorian age; with attitudes of employers to match.

But this isn't the Victorian age, this is nearly 200 years later in an age when we thought that poverty and inequality were well on the way to being eliminated. Our experience of the last 12 years has been that, far from being eliminated, the gap between the rich and the poor has widened and that we have had a government that is unconcerned about this. A government that has, through its economic policies, actually contributed to it.

The people who are striking, or planning to strike, are key workers or workers in private companies that are supposed to provide public services. The employees are people on whom the services depend, take them away and there is no-one to make the companies' profits. There is no earthly reason why they should not be able to have a share in those profits which recognises their contribution to making them. There is no reason why the company shareholders who, in the main, contribute nothing to the companies should be given an ever increasing share in those profits by way of dividends for doing absolutely nothing except buy some shares.

The distribution of wealth in our economy is like an inverted pyramid (i.e it's standing on its apex. The poorest people make up that apex. Then imagine the wealthy and companies sucking as much money as they can from those who comprise the apex. Because that is what they are doing. They sell their goods and services to the poor for as much as they can in the interests of making profits for themselves and their shareholders. But there comes a time, and it is probably here already, when their customers have little or nothing left to be sucked out of them. Then what happens? Company profits fall, people lose their jobs and the whole economy declines.

Paying decent wages helps to bolster the economy, it keeps companies in business; paying decent wages in the public sector has the same effect.

You seem to think that the striking workers are plotting some giant conspiracy against the public. Well, more and more of them are 'the public'. You should maybe read different newspapers, ones that aren't trying to play one section of the population off against another. There's no conspiracy, just more and more desperate hardworking people who can't make ends meet.

WWM2 Thank you for your excellent post.

But many people still believe that the Tories are better, that austerity will bring about prosperity and that Labour bankrupted the country and they will not be convinced otherwise. Sadly.

Whitewavemark2

Last night I was looking at various sources relating to the NHS, after reading the remark by an American poster.

I looked at huge reports by the Kingsfund and Nuffield and frankly I could weep.

In 1997 the NHS was in crises after bad Tory management, and Blair promised a 10 year plan and to concentrate on 3 things to kick start the process.

Waiting times reduced
Increase in staff
New and refurbished hospitals.

Funding rose year on year by an average of 7% for every one of those 10 years - the most the NHS has ever received
Waiting times were reduced initially in A&E to a standard 4 hours.
18 week for elective surgery
Appointment with GP within 48 hrs.

Up to 100 new hospitals were started and existing buildings refurbished and renewed.

Staffing levels increased - I can’t remember the numbers.

All this happened between 1997 and 2007.

Now of course there was still a lot that needed doing, but we, as a country, had every right to expect following governments to capitalise on what had been achieved and continue with the progress.

We then had an ideologue running the country who introduced austerity in the mistaken belief that it would give the U.K. greater prosperity.
All that it did was the opposite and as the Kings fund recorded “the drip, drip, drip of austerity” finally did for the NHS and it was in such a bad place when covid attacked that it was brought to its knees.

Everything that had been achieved the previous 10 years was destroyed within the following 10 years.

We lost it all.

The waiting times
The staff
New hospitals

All gone.

But of course we know that it isn’t just the NHS services suffering from a funding crises is it?

Sure Start - giving children the best start in life - gone
Education - which had received so much funding both for education but also to re-build decaying classrooms - gone
Youth services -gone
Libraries - going
Local authorities - bankrupt - look around you at the uncut, uncleared roads, the potholes, closure of public lavatories. Crises in social care - lack of social care, closure of LA run
Old peoples homes.
Courts in deep crises- with cases taking for ever to come to trial
Police numbers cut, burglaries not even investigated.

Where has all the money gone? Perhaps we can begin to guess when we look at the corruption and disastrous economic policies that the Tories have governed over the past 10 years.

And now we face another period of austerity.

Another mistaken and disastrous economic policy that won’t work, leaving the U.K. in an even poorer and debt ridden place.

Excellent post, thank you.

What strikes me here up thread is that some are saying "what will Starmer do"

but its two years away

Why isn't the government doing things NOW?

sometimes I wonder if they are set on a course for disasters, then having wrecked everything, Labour gets in, cant patch it up, "we told you so" says the Daily Mail et al...

Katie59 I couldn't agree more with your post about energy supply. I've been left scratching my head many times about why British owned companies weren't encouraged to manufacture wind turbines and solar panels, etc.

Of course a Labour government will make mistakes, some serious, but at least it won't have a bunch of crazies like the ERG on the back benches. Starmer has been pretty thorough in reducing the influence of the loony Left. But the mess they will inherit from the revolving door Tories will be a very real challenge. Re-establishing constructive relationships with the EU should be a top priority for reasons of trade and defence at least.

MaizieD

^I know where my vote will be cast next time.^

Have a look at Wwmk2's post and think again, Yammy?

Listen to the news and read the papers MaizieD, why are all these strikes suddenly coming when the labour think they have a chance with Sunak in charge? I have never seen keir Starmer so animated, aggressive or confrontational before. Why not with Boris or even Liz Truss, ask why now? Why more and more strikes?
These problems would have been there whatever party was in power, and I'm speaking as a person who was brought up in a very labour-strong hold with a boss who made us all use her title Lady when her husband a labour M.P. became a Lord.

The party is over for sure, we have been paying ourselves too much for many years.

I know where my vote will be cast next time.

Have a look at Wwmk2's post and think again, Yammy?

MaizieD

Thanks for this morning's laugh, Allsorts. 😆

I don't think it is a laugh, just a good summing up. Many years ago I think it was Harold Macmillan who used the phrase "You've never had it so good", I don't think any of us have really appreciated what we have had in the recent past.
Reality has hit home we have to cope and go forward with the party whatever our choice and I know which mine is from now on.
Rail strikes, nurses strikes, ambulance drivers, postal workers, Airport workers and now people who maintain the flow of traffic.
All just be before Christmas when we are trying our best to be positive. It all looks rather too co-ordinated to me.
I know where my vote will be cast next time.

“We could only have nationalised our own gas production; production that isn't sufficient for our needs.”

Of course we could, we chose to use gas for generating electricity, we frittered away our gas resources. We could have used Nuclear or Coal which is what our global competitors did, China, India, Germany, USA, all still rely on coal.

Don’t claim we are more environmentally friendly because the bulk of goods we import are produced using coal, all we have done is export our pollution. At the same time we have made ourselves vulnerable to market forces.

We are now supposed to be championing renewable energy, do any British companies manufacture Wind turbines - no (Siemens do have a plant in Hull). Do we manufacture Solar energy products - no we import everything.

How can we hope to thrive we are so far behind in technology.

Yes, agreed, Whitewavemark2, brilliant post.

Whitewavemark2

Last night I was looking at various sources relating to the NHS, after reading the remark by an American poster.

I looked at huge reports by the Kingsfund and Nuffield and frankly I could weep.

In 1997 the NHS was in crises after bad Tory management, and Blair promised a 10 year plan and to concentrate on 3 things to kick start the process.

Waiting times reduced
Increase in staff
New and refurbished hospitals.

Funding rose year on year by an average of 7% for every one of those 10 years - the most the NHS has ever received
Waiting times were reduced initially in A&E to a standard 4 hours.
18 week for elective surgery
Appointment with GP within 48 hrs.

Up to 100 new hospitals were started and existing buildings refurbished and renewed.

Staffing levels increased - I can’t remember the numbers.

All this happened between 1997 and 2007.

Now of course there was still a lot that needed doing, but we, as a country, had every right to expect following governments to capitalise on what had been achieved and continue with the progress.

We then had an ideologue running the country who introduced austerity in the mistaken belief that it would give the U.K. greater prosperity.
All that it did was the opposite and as the Kings fund recorded “the drip, drip, drip of austerity” finally did for the NHS and it was in such a bad place when covid attacked that it was brought to its knees.

Everything that had been achieved the previous 10 years was destroyed within the following 10 years.

We lost it all.

The waiting times
The staff
New hospitals

All gone.

But of course we know that it isn’t just the NHS services suffering from a funding crises is it?

Sure Start - giving children the best start in life - gone
Education - which had received so much funding both for education but also to re-build decaying classrooms - gone
Youth services -gone
Libraries - going
Local authorities - bankrupt - look around you at the uncut, uncleared roads, the potholes, closure of public lavatories. Crises in social care - lack of social care, closure of LA run
Old peoples homes.
Courts in deep crises- with cases taking for ever to come to trial
Police numbers cut, burglaries not even investigated.

Where has all the money gone? Perhaps we can begin to guess when we look at the corruption and disastrous economic policies that the Tories have governed over the past 10 years.

And now we face another period of austerity.

Another mistaken and disastrous economic policy that won’t work, leaving the U.K. in an even poorer and debt ridden place.

Brilliant post, Wwmk2 Bravo...👏👏👏

Katie59

MaizieD

volver

More than 50% of our gas is bought from overseas. It's a global market, so if supply goes down, prices go up. Doesn't matter where we buy it from.

Prices can also be affected by speculators in the market. They're in it just to make money.

Yes, but that’s the market we CHOSE, because it gives competition and lower prices in normal times. The UK could have chosen a nationalized system where energy prices are controlled, we didn’t, so we suffer high prices in times of shortage.

I would support a return to controlled markets, but the government does not now have the money that would be needed to fund it, we sold the family silver decades ago. Increasingly we are using privatization, cheap today pay tomorrow policies, so we will continue to be at the mercy of markets and speculators.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about, Katie59. I was referring to the world market for gas. Nationalisation has nothing to do with that. We could only have nationalised our own gas production; production that isn't sufficient for our needs.

Of course, if we hadn't spent 12 years under the tories we might have maintained a viable gas storage facility and be sitting pretty now.

MaizieD

volver

More than 50% of our gas is bought from overseas. It's a global market, so if supply goes down, prices go up. Doesn't matter where we buy it from.

Prices can also be affected by speculators in the market. They're in it just to make money.

Yes, but that’s the market we CHOSE, because it gives competition and lower prices in normal times. The UK could have chosen a nationalized system where energy prices are controlled, we didn’t, so we suffer high prices in times of shortage.

I would support a return to controlled markets, but the government does not now have the money that would be needed to fund it, we sold the family silver decades ago. Increasingly we are using privatization, cheap today pay tomorrow policies, so we will continue to be at the mercy of markets and speculators.

Last night I was looking at various sources relating to the NHS, after reading the remark by an American poster.

I looked at huge reports by the Kingsfund and Nuffield and frankly I could weep.

In 1997 the NHS was in crises after bad Tory management, and Blair promised a 10 year plan and to concentrate on 3 things to kick start the process.

Waiting times reduced
Increase in staff
New and refurbished hospitals.

Funding rose year on year by an average of 7% for every one of those 10 years - the most the NHS has ever received
Waiting times were reduced initially in A&E to a standard 4 hours.
18 week for elective surgery
Appointment with GP within 48 hrs.

Up to 100 new hospitals were started and existing buildings refurbished and renewed.

Staffing levels increased - I can’t remember the numbers.

All this happened between 1997 and 2007.

Now of course there was still a lot that needed doing, but we, as a country, had every right to expect following governments to capitalise on what had been achieved and continue with the progress.

We then had an ideologue running the country who introduced austerity in the mistaken belief that it would give the U.K. greater prosperity.
All that it did was the opposite and as the Kings fund recorded “the drip, drip, drip of austerity” finally did for the NHS and it was in such a bad place when covid attacked that it was brought to its knees.

Everything that had been achieved the previous 10 years was destroyed within the following 10 years.

We lost it all.

The waiting times
The staff
New hospitals

All gone.

But of course we know that it isn’t just the NHS services suffering from a funding crises is it?

Sure Start - giving children the best start in life - gone
Education - which had received so much funding both for education but also to re-build decaying classrooms - gone
Youth services -gone
Libraries - going
Local authorities - bankrupt - look around you at the uncut, uncleared roads, the potholes, closure of public lavatories. Crises in social care - lack of social care, closure of LA run
Old peoples homes.
Courts in deep crises- with cases taking for ever to come to trial
Police numbers cut, burglaries not even investigated.

Where has all the money gone? Perhaps we can begin to guess when we look at the corruption and disastrous economic policies that the Tories have governed over the past 10 years.

And now we face another period of austerity.

Another mistaken and disastrous economic policy that won’t work, leaving the U.K. in an even poorer and debt ridden place.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 46% (+2)
CON: 21% (-3)
GRN: 9% (+1)
LDM: 7% (-1)
RFM: 7% (+2)
SNP: 5% (=)

volver

More than 50% of our gas is bought from overseas. It's a global market, so if supply goes down, prices go up. Doesn't matter where we buy it from.

Prices can also be affected by speculators in the market. They're in it just to make money.

More than 50% of our gas is bought from overseas. It's a global market, so if supply goes down, prices go up. Doesn't matter where we buy it from.

paddyann54

Doesn't the UK only import 5 % of its gas from Russia ? If that is the case why has it had such a detrimental effect on supply and prices ?

It comes mostly from the North Sea, Norway and the USA.

paddyann54

Doesn't the UK only import 5 % of its gas from Russia ? If that is the case why has it had such a detrimental effect on supply and prices ?

It's an excuse.

paddyann54

Doesn't the UK only import 5 % of its gas from Russia ? If that is the case why has it had such a detrimental effect on supply and prices ?

I think it's because we also buy gas from countries which in turn buy gas from Russia. The EU countries, unsurprisingly, regard each other as "preferred customers".

Doesn't the UK only import 5 % of its gas from Russia ? If that is the case why has it had such a detrimental effect on supply and prices ?

which*

Incidentally, wchih opportunies of Brexit were missed?

Urmstongran The NHS has experienced two major restructures since 2010. How do you suggest it restructures to improve efficiency?