That reception - don't forget its message.

Yes racism is one of the causes of violence against women and any woman can be a victim.

To spend national money on schools and training for people in underdeveloped countries is a long term strategy but it's the only strategy that will eradicate ideologies like the Taliban and the Ayatollahs.

Education of underprivileged minorities in developed countries will eventually eradicate violence against women and children.

Some of the issues are so steeply based in culture, will they ever be overcome? FGM and girls marrying men sometimes 3 times their age. Becoming pregnant too young so unable to go full term resulting in the death of the unborn child and sometimes, the mother too.

Women of any age, race or creed are vulnerable to violence from men, because generally men are stronger than women and able to overpower them. Basic fact.
Women are still regarded as second class citizens by surprising numbers of people, (not all male) in this country and globally. My unpleasant father -in -law's attitude fifty years ago was that women had no place in the world of work except in a menial role. More recently, the C of E clerics opposed to appointing women bishops; no suggestion of violence there, but an unacknowledged contempt for women's ability, supported by a clergy wife who said there were some women who were not up to taking difficult decisions, and she was 'jolly glad that her husband was there to do that for her'.
Male violence is an expression of contempt for women, compounded by rage, fear and physical power. The assaults and murders are but a violent expression of what lies beneath.

*I think it's getting worse.
The misogyny in police forces and other organisations is appalling. It is being highlighted and tackled but not quickly enough*

I'm not sure if it's getting worse or being better recognised and acknowledged for what it is. As a young woman I was acutely aware of misogyny in the police force due to some family members but it seemed to be considered normal, humorous, boys being boys! Not so much these days from what I can see. I agree needs to be tackled faster!

The specific reason why we talk about things like racism being important and needing attention is because racism is a society wide issue

Which means if a black woman is more at risk for being black, how we tackle racism (as a society) will impact how specifically black women are targeted for abuse.

Which means the conversation on the other thread is important and does matter.

Does that make sense?

but it seemed to be considered normal, humorous, boys being boys!

I believe it is much nastier now, nothing in the slightest humorous about it.

Madgran77

*Violence of all kinds happens around the world to women and girls irrespective of race, colour, religion.*

Sadly it does. And ONE of the causes of violence against women is racism. I think that was the point being made by VS but I'm sure she can confirm if she wishes to.

Anyway, from the perspective of the UN 16 day days of Activism against Gender based Violence, it is really great and a huge step forward that Camilla is continuing her long practised focus on DV using her position to draw attention to it and be part of the worldwide strategy to address Gender based Violence in all its forms

Indeed, that was VioletSky's point, one she makes often, and it was understood and noted. That doesn't mean that other posters should be condemned for discussing other causes.

I think boys being boys is part of the problem and their parents excusing of 'boy' behaviours. It starts very young ime

And no-one has said the conversation on the other thread is unimportant - but it is not the only conversation in town, and it is permitted to be concerned on more than one topic at a time.

We have four boys and one girl, our boys were raised to respect women and girls along with treating them how they would like their sister to be treated.

Respect starts in the home and should continue through education and into the workplace.

I do understand that gallows humour and banter has a place but it does not need to be disrespectful to women or men.

Elegran

And no-one has said the conversation on the other thread is unimportant - but it is not the only conversation in town, and it is permitted to be concerned on more than one topic at a time.

Erm

That's not how this thread was presented

And not how it has continued

GrannyGravy13

We have four boys and one girl, our boys were raised to respect women and girls along with treating them how they would like their sister to be treated.

Respect starts in the home and should continue through education and into the workplace.

I do understand that gallows humour and banter has a place but it does not need to be disrespectful to women or men.

I agree with you GG13 but as a Mum of boys you will have witnessed first hand how much excusing of bad behaviour goes on by parents because 'well they are just being boys' 'boys will be boys' I often felt like I was fighting a losing battle at times.

Indeed, that was VioletSky's point, one she makes often, and it was understood and noted. That doesn't mean that other posters should be condemned for discussing other causes.

I didn't see anyone condemned really. More it being highlighted that the racism aspect IS actually relevant to the overall problem alongside all the various other aspects.

Nothing but nothing has been forgotten or detracted from

At all

Please don't do us a disservice for discussing racism

*eazybee" said "Male violence is an expression of contempt for women, compounded by rage, fear and physical power." I think what some fear is their own need for women. As "real men" they expect to be autonomous and independent, free to carve their own path, dependent on no-one. To be so reliant on the goodwill of members of the smaller, weaker sex to satisfy their deepest desires, and have to give up some of that independence and admit to their need is frustrating to them.

So they frame it to themselves (perhaps unconsciously, but some quite openly rant about women) that the women are at fault for not being suitably servile about providing wonderful meals instantly on demand (as their mother did when baby was hungry) or for wanting to have a say in joint decisions, or just for being attractive and making them feel horny but not being willing to have sex, - and they must be punished and forced to obey.

Other reasons are not the root cause of the violence - many other men drink alcohol, are unemployed or poor or uneducated, are of various races, or have some other second reason to possibly feel animosity toward women, but never resort to violence if they don't have that basic resentment.

there was lots of women blaming going on, on the other thread

Please don't do us a disservice for discussing racism

I gree that such a disservice should not be done to anyone.

But why does racism need to be raised on this thread which purportedly about violence against women and girls regardless of their race? I think that's the point elegran was making. The reason for the reception kind of got forgotten in the racism row and we were just being reminded.

None of which says racism can't be talked about but it doesn't need to be on this thread as well as the other. Why can't this thread be about what the OP started talking about and not about racism?

could you stop making this an argumentative thread, please, VioletSky It wasn't started as such, it was started as an ADDITION to the thread on that incident during the reception, to discuss the original concerns for which the reception was held .

YOU are the one who is doing everyone else a disservice by trying to turn it into a controversial thread by concentrating on the racist aspect above all others..

As a nurse some time during 70s a GP in a rural cottage hospital informed me of a newly admitted battered woman that "She probably deserved it."

You do not have to blame me for reacting to what you said

That's a choice Elegran

I am simply asking:

Do you understand that some women are more vulnerable or vulnerable in a different way to you and why that matters?

And does knowing that now make you feel the OP could have been worded differently and you understand that some of us have forgotten nothing?

BTW I'm not being rude or attacking

Just explaining

Bit of a pain in the butt tho.

Do you understand that some women are more vulnerable or vulnerable in a different way to you and why that matters?
I’m sure elegran does understand that.

Elegran

could you stop making this an argumentative thread, please, VioletSky It wasn't started as such, it was started as an ADDITION to the thread on that incident during the reception, to discuss the original concerns for which the reception was held .

YOU are the one who is doing everyone else a disservice by trying to turn it into a controversial thread by concentrating on the racist aspect above all others..

I suppose I could also be accused of trying to make make this an argumentative thread. I truly am not.

I just think that, whilst not overshadowing the overall purpose of the reception, it should not be thought that racism is not relevant to the overall problem. I am not suggesting that that is what YOU were saying when starting this thread, but there was an impression developing that racism was not considered relevant. Perhaps I misunderstood some of the replies to your post, perhaps not. .

You are right Elegran, it is important that the original purpose of that Reception ie. The UN 16-day Focus on Gender Violence should not be lost. Hopefully it won't be.

All of this was once explained to me

Perhaps I am not explaining myself well enough but I'm trying

What can I do to combat violent men? Well I can raise my children with feminist principles and I can call it out when I see it.

What can I do about racism? Well I can help people relate to each other and the wider world around them and I can call it out when I see it.

Will both of those things have an impact on violence against women?

Yes, the more people who place importance on it, the better

And yes racism, ageism, homophobia, transphobia, ableist views etc etc

all deserve space on a thread about violence against women

As does any other excuse violent men
use