NHS strikes in Scotland called off .

The Chairman of the BMA, an Inverness GP says “no way” Scottish NHS can survive.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64101348

growstuff

prestbury

growstuff

Mollygo

It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning
And each layer of admin means less money for nursing staff?

And all imposed by the government to "improve" efficiency. The additional admin isn't even at hospital level; it's at trust level.

So when people bleat on about too much management in the NHS, they need to look at the people who introduced it all in the first place.

Created by a conservative governement in 1991 and extended by a labour government in 2004 with the implementation of foundation trusts.

Indeed! However, commissioning was introduced in 2011/12 and resulted in an increase in the number of staff required to administer the new system.

Is there commissioning in NHS Scotland? I thought there was a similar structure to Wales, where the Health Boards serve defined geographical populations, and there is no competition for resources.

volver I didn’t notice how old that article was, I last looked at the BBC site on the day before Christmas Eve. Part of my Christmas gift to myself was to not look at the news and most social media whilst I was at my daughters, knew she’d tell me of anything major. I got home tonight so thought I’d catch up.

prestbury

growstuff

Mollygo

It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning
And each layer of admin means less money for nursing staff?

And all imposed by the government to "improve" efficiency. The additional admin isn't even at hospital level; it's at trust level.

So when people bleat on about too much management in the NHS, they need to look at the people who introduced it all in the first place.

Created by a conservative governement in 1991 and extended by a labour government in 2004 with the implementation of foundation trusts.

Indeed! However, commissioning was introduced in 2011/12 and resulted in an increase in the number of staff required to administer the new system.

Not quite the latest. 3 days ago.

The word "impose" is being used to try to suggest that the Scottish Government is walking all over the NHS Unions. But 2 of the 3 nurses' unions have accepted the offer, so it makes sense for the government to make the offer reality. Otherwise they would be withholding an agreed payrise from a large section of the workforce.

Latest update on strikes in the NHS in Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64076644

growstuff

Mollygo

It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning
And each layer of admin means less money for nursing staff?

And all imposed by the government to "improve" efficiency. The additional admin isn't even at hospital level; it's at trust level.

So when people bleat on about too much management in the NHS, they need to look at the people who introduced it all in the first place.

Created by a conservative governement in 1991 and extended by a labour government in 2004 with the implementation of foundation trusts.

Oreo

Yeah but houses are cheap in Scotland.

Only in some places - mainly in the back of beyond. Services are no cheaper than in England either. Scotland isn't some third world country with rock bottom prices and therefore people prepared to work for pennies.

Mollygo

^It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning^
And each layer of admin means less money for nursing staff?

A lot of the managers are nurses, I’m not sure if people realise that the vast majority of managers in the NHS, wherever you are, are clinicians?
The structure much simpler in Wales, we have 7 geographically based Health Boards covering virtually all NHS services, and three Trusts, including the Welsh Ambulance Service.

Mollygo

^It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning^
And each layer of admin means less money for nursing staff?

And all imposed by the government to "improve" efficiency. The additional admin isn't even at hospital level; it's at trust level.

So when people bleat on about too much management in the NHS, they need to look at the people who introduced it all in the first place.

It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning
And each layer of admin means less money for nursing staff?

volver

I don't know. I wasn't at the talks.

But at least they're trying.

Are there 219 trusts? Crikey. Didn't think it was that many.

Each hospital is a separate trust, as are mental health trusts, etc. I don't think people realise how fragmented the system is in England. It was supposed to improve efficiency through competition, but has resulted in each one having its own layer of admin, including commissioning.

I hope M/S Sturgeon keeps her sticky little fingers out of English negotiation with the Unions,the Tories are managing quite nicely[badly] for themselves to make a hash. Her negotiations have lasted 2 days with some Scottish unions.

Are there 219 trusts? Crikey. Didn't think it was that many.

I didn't think it was that many either..

I do agree about trying. Maybe more talks will appease in Scotland, but in England I'm not optimistic.

I don't know. I wasn't at the talks.

But at least they're trying.

Are there 219 trusts? Crikey. Didn't think it was that many.

So why did it not work for the RCN and midwives?

Midwives in England aren't striking. Only 44 NHS trusts are striking in England. 44 out of 219.

Zoejory

*Evidently TALKS didn’t have any better outcome in Scotland*

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64052327

No, they didn't, Mollygo

I was somewhat doubtful they'd reach an agreement but didn't want to be negative.

Just like I doubt very much any table talking will be of much benefit in the rest of the country either.

Please see my post above.

Talking works. Agreement reached with 2 out of 3 Unions.

Two out of the three nursing unions have accepted the offer made by the Scottish Government. So that's a better outcome, IMO.

Mollygo

paddyann54

After TALKS between MS Sturgeon ,Humza Yousef ,health minister and two of the unions strikes are off.
Settlement average 7'5% across the board with lower paid getting 11.4% and top earners getting 7.5% .

Now if only WM would talk to their unions about NHS England...oh wait..WM wants the NHS to fail so they can sell it off .Maybe time the people toppled the tories and took control over these eegits who are supposed to work for you !

Evidently TALKS didn’t have any better outcome in Scotland.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64052327

Well they did make a difference in the sense that todays strikes were averted, so lives were saved. Well done Scottish government for that.

Oreo

Yeah but houses are cheap in Scotland.

Not in Edinburgh and some other places.

Evidently TALKS didn’t have any better outcome in Scotland

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64052327

No, they didn't, Mollygo

I was somewhat doubtful they'd reach an agreement but didn't want to be negative.

Just like I doubt very much any table talking will be of much benefit in the rest of the country either.

paddyann54

After TALKS between MS Sturgeon ,Humza Yousef ,health minister and two of the unions strikes are off.
Settlement average 7'5% across the board with lower paid getting 11.4% and top earners getting 7.5% .

Now if only WM would talk to their unions about NHS England...oh wait..WM wants the NHS to fail so they can sell it off .Maybe time the people toppled the tories and took control over these eegits who are supposed to work for you !

Evidently TALKS didn’t have any better outcome in Scotland.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64052327

The RCN and RCM have refused the offer, will probably strike next year.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64052327

Excellent news, let’s hope the RCN and the other remaining unions also accept what’s on offer.

I heard the deal in Scotland being discussed on both the World at One and PM today.